Re: [opensuse-translation] gnome-packagekit (Re: opensuseupdater-gnome: openSUSE 11.0 - POT file update wanted)
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Stanislav Brabec
You don't need my magic, if you want to start with translation of actual version. My magic is useful for merging upstream translation from the latest version to the old version we have in released products.
My tool does not yet support pushing strings back to upstream, however it's planned feature.
Even if will, translation in two places creates a lot of additional work-flow problems: - Needs remerge - Does not provent duplicated work - Need handling of each conflict in translation that can happen, if two translators did the work in parallel. Person performing the merge cannot give answer, not knowing all languages. * Is it only simple difference and both translations are correct? * Is it a typo fix on Novell side? * Is it a typo fix on upstream side? * Is it a typo introduced by Novell? * Is it a typo introduced by upstream? * Is it a conflict in translator's opinion? There is no algorithm to decide, which of the conflicting translations is correct.
Not providing translation back is a bad approach of Ubuntu, which duplicates the translation effort.
I am not a person organizing translations. I am only a package maintainer, who did some voluntary translation in past.
But from my aspect of view, it would be simplest to translate directly in upstream.
Upstream strictly requires conforming to national translation conventions and a responsive contact person. If translators don't want to (can't) use SVN directly (and ask for commit permission to GNOME SVN), then they may use SVN submit contact person in Novell, who knows SVN and who will submit translations back. Keeping contact person e-mail is mandatory.
I can imagine even a very simple automatic tool, which will extract translation from the Novell database, verify the translation by gettext tools and merge it back to upstream as soon as possible, and another tool, which will extract upstream translation and put to Novell database. Simple authorized web page for translators: Fetch upstream translation Check and commit to upstream
Merging bad translations back to upstream without providing any contact person for the fix is even worse than forking them: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2007-September/msg00254.html
I completly agree. If we want to collaborate translating it, the right way would be do it upstream. -- Kind Regards
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On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Stanislav Brabec <> wrote:
Gabriel, Thank you for forwarding his email, it did not make to this list.
You don't need my magic, if you want to start with translation of actual version. My magic is useful for merging upstream translation from the latest version to the old version we have in released products.
That would be appropriate.
My tool does not yet support pushing strings back to upstream, however it's planned feature.
Probably not wise, for the reasons you say later. ...
I am not a person organizing translations. I am only a package maintainer, who did some voluntary translation in past.
But from my aspect of view, it would be simplest to translate directly in upstream.
Correct.
Upstream strictly requires conforming to national translation conventions and a responsive contact person. If translators don't want to (can't) use SVN directly (and ask for commit permission to GNOME SVN), then they may use SVN submit contact person in Novell, who knows SVN and who will submit translations back. Keeping contact person e-mail is mandatory.
Interesting.
I completly agree. If we want to collaborate translating it, the right way would be do it upstream.
Yep. I even think that it could be appropriate to remove this particular .pot/.po from our tree. It should be the task of the package maintainer (any and all packages, perhaps) to decide if he wants to fetch the most modern translation from each project tree and merge it to the version he packages for the distro, IMHO. Pushing a .po to the team of translators of a distribution is not correct, if an upstream translation effort exists. We (translators) could help translate upstream projects in between opensuse releases. For example, I have an email from a sourceforge translation project, I'll ask them if I can repost it here, in case anybody is interested. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIEKAktTMYHG2NR9URAkIfAKCDvIrtVwSLpT0g4uK9sNGmgNrIeQCeLevi GFEXeDl3vjTBCqnLLEeN070= =YA0S -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Torsdag den 24. April 2008 16:58:43 skrev Carlos E. R.:
I completly agree. If we want to collaborate translating it, the right way would be do it upstream.
Yep.
I even think that it could be appropriate to remove this particular .pot/.po from our tree.
It should be the task of the package maintainer (any and all packages, perhaps) to decide if he wants to fetch the most modern translation from each project tree and merge it to the version he packages for the distro, IMHO. Pushing a .po to the team of translators of a distribution is not correct, if an upstream translation effort exists.
We (translators) could help translate upstream projects in between opensuse releases. For example, I have an email from a sourceforge translation project, I'll ask them if I can repost it here, in case anybody is interested.
I think it's justifiable in this particular case, since it's pretty central software (default updater for gnome users), that still is severely lacking in upstream translation. But it certainly shouldn't become the rule. Danish team has translated gnome-packagekit and has merged strings into latest POT from upstream and sent the work to Danish GNOME translators. The rest is up to them. Btw., kdepim 4.1 which will be included in 11.0 will probably be very poorly translated from upstream also, since openSUSE will ship beta version. So it might make sense for some people here to get involved with translating that upstream. See status for your language here: http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/trunk-kde4/package/kdepim/ http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/trunk-kde4/package/kdepimlibs/ Or maybe we should add ~12.000 strings additional strings to openSUSE SVN :-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
In openSuse SVN should be only the strings specific to openSUSE, not
all the things that appear on openSUSE. Don't use the ubuntu system,
please.
Bye,
Leandro Regueiro
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Martin Schlander
Torsdag den 24. April 2008 16:58:43 skrev Carlos E. R.:
I completly agree. If we want to collaborate translating it, the right way would be do it upstream.
Yep.
I even think that it could be appropriate to remove this particular .pot/.po from our tree.
It should be the task of the package maintainer (any and all packages, perhaps) to decide if he wants to fetch the most modern translation from each project tree and merge it to the version he packages for the distro, IMHO. Pushing a .po to the team of translators of a distribution is not correct, if an upstream translation effort exists.
We (translators) could help translate upstream projects in between opensuse releases. For example, I have an email from a sourceforge translation project, I'll ask them if I can repost it here, in case anybody is interested.
I think it's justifiable in this particular case, since it's pretty central software (default updater for gnome users), that still is severely lacking in upstream translation.
But it certainly shouldn't become the rule.
Danish team has translated gnome-packagekit and has merged strings into latest POT from upstream and sent the work to Danish GNOME translators. The rest is up to them.
Btw., kdepim 4.1 which will be included in 11.0 will probably be very poorly translated from upstream also, since openSUSE will ship beta version. So it might make sense for some people here to get involved with translating that upstream.
See status for your language here: http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/trunk-kde4/package/kdepim/ http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/trunk-kde4/package/kdepimlibs/
Or maybe we should add ~12.000 strings additional strings to openSUSE SVN :-)
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Basically the question is still open. What do we need to do to have it translated in 11? Please answer in time before the end of the main translation round. Thanks in advance, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-04-24 at 15:13 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Basically the question is still open. What do we need to do to have it translated in 11?
If I understand correctly, each team would have to contact upstream the gnome translators to help translating the appropriate file. In due course, the file would propagate downstream... This would take months, and could not be coordinated. Another, much faster, approach would be: - To merge the most recent translation (from cvs or whatever upstream) to our file. - Then translate the resulting file locally, by our teams. - Someone from Novell mails (not submitting, mind!) the translations to the gnome translation coordinator so that they use them if they like them, or discard them if they don't. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIEQddtTMYHG2NR9URAqA4AJ94hBA4z66ExymgGMnW6PH7De9wEwCfc9So ekQoSVblBfVdGWt16JhI1/8= =da0m -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
Hello,
If I understand correctly, each team would have to contact upstream the gnome translators to help translating the appropriate file. In due course, the file would propagate downstream...
I do not agree with the idea of translating a package we didn't really need. We had opensuse-updater, which was perfectly localized (even though I've never seen the complete translation in action due to never fixed bugs). Now packagekit is being pushed for a really unclear reason, forcing kde to use it too and with the evident risk (see bugzilla) to have other issues with the package manager again. To this, add the fact that external applications, not maintained by opensuse should not be translated by us, and before pushing one application, its localization should be previously verified. It's just basic quality assurance. To add a note, I find a bit funny we still have to understand if we have to translate the updater, one of the most visible applications, almost at the end of the translation cycle.
This would take months, and could not be coordinated.
I agree. I won't contact upstream myself for my team.
Another, much faster, approach would be:
- To merge the most recent translation (from cvs or whatever upstream) to our file. - Then translate the resulting file locally, by our teams. - Someone from Novell mails (not submitting, mind!) the translations to the gnome translation coordinator so that they use them if they like them, or discard them if they don't.
Considering the translation round finishes at the end of April, this has to be done now, or the file won't be translated before the deadline. Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Thursday 2008-04-24 at 19:59 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
This would take months, and could not be coordinated.
I agree. I won't contact upstream myself for my team.
Me neither. I have my agenda full as it is, and joining the gnome team wouldn't be for a single file, for sure. Others might do, of course.
Another, much faster, approach would be:
- To merge the most recent translation (from cvs or whatever upstream) to our file. - Then translate the resulting file locally, by our teams. - Someone from Novell mails (not submitting, mind!) the translations to the gnome translation coordinator so that they use them if they like them, or discard them if they don't.
Considering the translation round finishes at the end of April, this has to be done now, or the file won't be translated before the deadline.
I don't even know where from we could get our respective languages .po files of the most recent version. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIETMUtTMYHG2NR9URAoGkAKCVWXGyRfCLF6LqrrpNLJPniHLqQACfZoPQ 4aJU+wq6iP25wpR6n7Lgltw= =4kzO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-translation+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Carlos E. R. -
Gabriel -
Leandro Regueiro -
Martin Schlander