Hi all, I was travelling last days and now I am catching up with the long discussion. Now I must start the inline ranting... On 13/10/15 16:57, Richard Brown wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Notice the important detail: the translator works on finished versions of the code, not on transient versions - which is why Factory can not be translated.
Tumbleweed can be translated, indeed it should be
No, it _must_ be, because it is now one of two main distributions produced by the openSUSE Project
You are warmly invited to provide translations, if it _must_ be. The mantra is "whose wo do, decide"; here the "whose wo do" are the translators, so they decide. If you are not a translator, you are not entitled to decide because you don't do. Or is the mantra applicable only to those that code/develop/put packages together?
Even for Leap, we must consider that the very concept of 'frozen' releases is becoming less and less relevant.
Has someone asked comments from translators about possible issues with the new Leap? I have seen none, but since "those who do, decide" is applicable also here, Leap has been decided by those who actually make the distribution, so it was their right to decide.
Heck, even SUSE Linux Enterprise has modules which are constantly updated and so would require constant translations
I don't care at all, unless someone knowing this spends a minute to inform the translators about this. Wait, it is completely not my problem, as volunteers are not supposed to translate SLE parts and anyway their work will not be used for openSUSE when translation refers to parts coming from SLE.
Our tools and processes need to update to face that challenge
OK.
You cannot keep on doing things the way you always used to. This is no disrespect to the fine work you and others have done with translations in the past, but the things have to change. Welcome to 2015.
Sorry but my feeling is that really few have some consideration for the work of translators and only a small subset of them seems to consider the work of translators important enough to be taken and included in the distribution.
They were not working because the developers were not doing their part. So, they are not happy and they change it, good, but destroying our side of the system, the side that was working correctly, bad.
More 'us' vs 'them' - Stop it
As wonderful as things might have been from your perspective, the reality is that the output of 'your' part was not working correctly
Well, to some sense this is the case, but for sure not translator's fault. The output of the translators is a bunch of files with the translations; if no one uses them, it is not a translator's fault at all. Example: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=906691 There the new translation has been ignored for 4 years. Is it my fault? No. You are putting the fault on translator's shoulders ("the output of 'your' part was not working correctly") instead of on the real culprit: the process of taking the completed translations was not working correctly. This is not equivalent to what you said and it matches better the reality.
Just look at Tumbleweed - Mostly untranslated, by your own omission
Is this a translator's fault?
Just look at Leap - Untranslated, by your own omission
Is this a translator's fault? Take the Italian translation I am providing: the files in the SVN are 100% translated. If Tumbleweed/Leap are distributed not translated, is it my fault?
You had an opportunity to step up and help shape the solution to those problems.
You declined.
That makes you dependant on others to find solutions for you. Others have. You can either work with them to make it better, or be quiet, anything else is hypocrisy.
You can work with them to make it better if *you know* that something is changing to improve the situation. Where is the communication of the changes? No communication at all, until it has been discovered by noting files disappear from the SVN server.
You have a you vs us the instant that a group (with suse addresses) implement huge changes to things without talking with the rest, that happen to have outside addresses.
Carlos, let me say this very clearly
The _contributors_ who are _contributing_ Weblate are _CONTRIBUTORS_ like you
But when the time of decision comes, it seems to me that some contributors are more contributors than others...
The project's guiding principles ( https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles ) make it clear that we're a project that values respect for other persons and contributions.
This is just a nice phrase, but is it applied in the real world? and moreover, does it imply that the value is given in equal way to different contributions?
If you wish to continue to disrespect the Weblate contributors by discriminating against them because of their email address, if you continue to act in this mindset of 'us' vs 'them', I strongly encourage you to find another project that will tolerate your world view, because it will not be accepted here.
I will continue my rant on your other mail... Best, Andrea -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-translation+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-translation+owner@opensuse.org