Hi testers, Yesterday, I did an install of 11.2 with a friend. He had some old Athlon machine with an AGP NVidia Geforce 4 MX440 and a 17" CRT. isolinux proposed a resolution of 1600x1200 which we changed to 1280x1024 After install, it rebooted and started YaST2 Second Stage in X11 at highest resolution (1600x1200) which the monitor could not handle. Interrupting this with Ctrl-Alt-Backspace continued boot-up without second stage, which meant that no user-account (just root) was there. We needed to run second-stage config manually. SaX2 failed to work, so the only thing that helped to get X11 was to copy /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install to xorg.conf Of course X11 was slow using frame-buffer or vesa... and it took some effort to get the commercial Nvidia driver to work (the community repos via yast2/ncurses were very helpful there) Overall, I would like to see a much better user-experience in 11.3 e.g. by not having X11 run at highest possible resolution during critical parts of the installation without asking or telling the user before that (and even ignoring the setting made for the install)... Maybe Nouveau/KMS could help, too. Maybe there is some other place than xorg.conf to configure the maximum resolution of your monitor? Or some place where templates for xorg.conf sections can be found? Ciao Bernhard M. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/05/23 08:39 (GMT+0200) Bernhard M. Wiedemann composed:
... a 17" CRT. isolinux proposed a resolution of 1600x1200 which we changed to 1280x1024 ... Overall, I would like to see a much better user-experience in 11.3
1280x1024 is a non-conformant 5/4 aspect ratio. Using it on a normal 4/3 CRT results in vertical compression of the whole GUI desktop. Is that distortion a better user experience? I don't think the installer should think so. http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/aspect.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Am 23.05.2010 15:00, schrieb Felix Miata:
On 2010/05/23 08:39 (GMT+0200) Bernhard M. Wiedemann composed:
... a 17" CRT. isolinux proposed a resolution of 1600x1200 which we changed to 1280x1024
...
Overall, I would like to see a much better user-experience in 11.3
1280x1024 is a non-conformant 5/4 aspect ratio. Using it on a normal 4/3 CRT results in vertical compression of the whole GUI desktop. Is that distortion a better user experience? I don't think the installer should think so. http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/aspect.html
The CRT had buttons/menus to un-distort the image in many ways. And even if not, I would have preferred 1024x768 or even 640x480 in 16 colors (good old standard VGA) to something that doesn't work and is hard to get working for Linux-beginners. Could Ctrl-Alt-+ have helped to work around it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Am 23.05.2010 15:00 schrieb Felix Miata:
On 2010/05/23 08:39 (GMT+0200) Bernhard M. Wiedemann composed:
... a 17" CRT. isolinux proposed a resolution of 1600x1200 which we changed to 1280x1024 ... Overall, I would like to see a much better user-experience in 11.3
1280x1024 is a non-conformant 5/4 aspect ratio. Using it on a normal 4/3 CRT results in vertical compression of the whole GUI desktop. Is that distortion a better user experience? I don't think the installer should think so.
A distorted desktop is a better user experience than an "out of range" message and no desktop at all. Jm2c -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits. Ungeöffnet mindestens haltbar bis: (siehe Rückseite) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/05/23 12:37 (GMT-0400) Tilman Schmidt composed:
Am 23.05.2010 15:00 schrieb Felix Miata:
On 2010/05/23 08:39 (GMT+0200) Bernhard M. Wiedemann composed:
... a 17" CRT. isolinux proposed a resolution of 1600x1200 which we changed to 1280x1024 ... Overall, I would like to see a much better user-experience in 11.3
1280x1024 is a non-conformant 5/4 aspect ratio. Using it on a normal 4/3 CRT results in vertical compression of the whole GUI desktop. Is that distortion a better user experience? I don't think the installer should think so.
A distorted desktop is a better user experience than an "out of range" message and no desktop at all.
Last CRT I ran into that couldn't do 1600x1200 was made more than 16 years ago. I've never seen an out of range warning on anything that old. Those antiques simply stayed blank, or randomized, or blew up. Whether 1600x1200 can fulfill one's fantasies is another matter, but high resolution does equate to high quality, which some people prefer, particularly as to font rendering quality. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Am 23.05.2010 19:22 schrieb Felix Miata:
On 2010/05/23 12:37 (GMT-0400) Tilman Schmidt composed: [...]
A distorted desktop is a better user experience than an "out of range" message and no desktop at all.
Last CRT I ran into that couldn't do 1600x1200 was made more than 16 years ago. [...]
I have one in my basement that displays a moving "out of range" for anything beyond 1280x1024. The label on its back says: "MANUFACTURED: OCTOBER 1996". :-) Anyway, the OP explicitly wrote: "highest resolution (1600x1200) which the monitor could not handle" and I see no reason to doubt his words. But I'll defer to him to further defend his case. HTH T. -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: tilman@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Diese Nachricht besteht zu 100% aus wiederverwerteten Bits. Ungeöffnet mindestens haltbar bis: (siehe Rückseite)
Felix Miata wrote:
Last CRT I ran into that couldn't do 1600x1200 was made more than 16 years ago.
1994?? Hmm, I've got a few 17" quite a bit younger, they still can't do 1600x1200 ... /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
On 2010/05/24 09:14 (GMT+0200) Per Jessen composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Last CRT I ran into that couldn't do 1600x1200 was made more than 16 years ago.
1994?? Hmm, I've got a few 17" quite a bit younger, they still can't do 1600x1200 ...
I don't go by published specs. I go by what they can actually do. I have a pair of 17" Trinitrons from 1999 advertised to top out at 1280x1024 that handle 2048x1536, something every 19" I've encountered can do, though I do have a 1997 P1150 NEC Multiscan that tops out at 1920x1440. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2010/05/24 09:14 (GMT+0200) Per Jessen composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Last CRT I ran into that couldn't do 1600x1200 was made more than 16 years ago.
1994?? Hmm, I've got a few 17" quite a bit younger, they still can't do 1600x1200 ...
I don't go by published specs. I go by what they can actually do.
Same here - I have no need to look up the specs, they're just a few old 17" monitors in the datacentre, and they can't or won't do more than 1280x1024. /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Le 24/05/2010 12:40, Per Jessen a écrit :
I don't go by published specs. I go by what they can actually do.
Same here - I have no need to look up the specs, they're just a few old 17" monitors in the datacentre, and they can't or won't do more than 1280x1024.
don't underestimate the video card influence :-) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-support-the-Linux-Documentation-Project/3720... http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-fan-page-of-Claire-Dodin/106485119372062?v... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
I think it is clear in this discussion we could find abundant counter examples to Felix's theory all day. Moving on from that, is there a bug filed? On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 6:45 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Le 24/05/2010 12:40, Per Jessen a écrit :
I don't go by published specs. I go by what they can actually do.
Same here - I have no need to look up the specs, they're just a few old 17" monitors in the datacentre, and they can't or won't do more than 1280x1024.
don't underestimate the video card influence :-)
jdd
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participants (6)
-
Bernhard M. Wiedemann -
Felix Miata -
jdd -
Per Jessen -
Steven Harms -
Tilman Schmidt