A modest proposal: Make nomodeset the default for distributions
Although the KMS video drivers have improved a lot, there are still a lot of nVidia adapters for which nouveau fails to provide any useful graphics screens. For new users, the failure to boot to a meaningful display is frustrating. The problem used to affect only persons that had implemented the proprietary closed-source drivers, and their graphics failed when the kernel changed. They could be warned in advance because a lot of them came to the forums for help in getting the propriety driver installed. With KMS, people are having trouble with their initial look at an openSUSE version. I expect many decide that openSUSE is flawed and move on to other distros. I propose two fixes/workarounds: (1) Make the GRUB option "nomodeset" be the default for all installation media. There will be very little impact on the NET install CD or the DVD install disks. The lower graphics performance for the Live CDs will be a small penalty to pay for the benefit of getting a great many more systems to boot. If the "nomodeset" appears after the "VGA=" on the GRUB options line, it will be easy to advise people to try removing it when booting. They will quickly learn if they need it or not. (2) In the installation process for GRUB, detect the presence of an nVidia adapter and pop-up a screen advising the user that the installed system may need the nomodeset option in order to boot. I single out nVidia because nouveau seems to handle many fewer models than the KMS drivers for the others. I don't have any ATI adapters, and the one i915 system I have boots without trouble. One of my nVidia-equipped systems boots to a blank screen with nouveau, and the other corrupts the alternate terminals. I have no doubt that the KMS developers will have drivers that handle nearly all adapters in the near future. As someone having experience with reverse engineering, I'm really impressed with the progress, but kernels 3.0 and 3.1 still need some work. As we can help our users get a more satisfactory experience with quite small changes, I think we should do so. Thanks, Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Larry Finger wrote:
Although the KMS video drivers have improved a lot, there are still a lot of nVidia adapters for which nouveau fails to provide any useful graphics screens. For new users, the failure to boot to a meaningful display is frustrating. The problem used to affect only persons that had implemented the proprietary closed-source drivers, and their graphics failed when the kernel changed. They could be warned in advance because a lot of them came to the forums for help in getting the propriety driver installed. With KMS, people are having trouble with their initial look at an openSUSE version. I expect many decide that openSUSE is flawed and move on to other distros.
I propose two fixes/workarounds:
(1) Make the GRUB option "nomodeset" be the default for all installation media.
+1 /Per Jessen, Zürich -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Yeah, I think this is a good idea. 11.4 on my HP Pavilion dv4 notebook (ATI) actually ran better with the native open source driver than the proprietary ATI driver, and my new laptop (Intel i5 - integrated GPU) runs fine with both 11.4 and 12.1 with "nomodeset". Basically, I should be able to take a GNOME or a KDE LiveCD into a Staples or a Best Buy and boot it on any laptop they have and have the screen, audio, wireless and pointing device come up functional. I know that's a tall order, but I just bought an Asus U46E-BAL5 and except for a modest glitch in the touchpad (Linux thinks it's a PS/2 mouse and it's a known upstream kernel issue) it comes up with everything functional in openSUSE 11.4, Fedora and Ubuntu. On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:17 PM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
Larry Finger wrote:
Although the KMS video drivers have improved a lot, there are still a lot of nVidia adapters for which nouveau fails to provide any useful graphics screens. For new users, the failure to boot to a meaningful display is frustrating. The problem used to affect only persons that had implemented the proprietary closed-source drivers, and their graphics failed when the kernel changed. They could be warned in advance because a lot of them came to the forums for help in getting the propriety driver installed. With KMS, people are having trouble with their initial look at an openSUSE version. I expect many decide that openSUSE is flawed and move on to other distros.
I propose two fixes/workarounds:
(1) Make the GRUB option "nomodeset" be the default for all installation media.
+1
/Per Jessen, Zürich
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Larry Finger wrote:
I propose two fixes/workarounds:
(1) Make the GRUB option "nomodeset" be the default for all installation media. There will be very little impact on the NET install CD or the DVD install disks. The lower graphics performance for the Live CDs will be a small penalty to pay for the benefit of getting a great many more systems to boot. If the "nomodeset" appears after the "VGA=" on the GRUB options line, it will be easy to advise people to try removing it when booting. They will quickly learn if they need it or not.
(2) In the installation process for GRUB, detect the presence of an nVidia adapter and pop-up a screen advising the user that the installed system may need the nomodeset option in order to boot. I single out nVidia because nouveau seems to handle many fewer models than the KMS drivers for the others. I don't have any ATI adapters, and the one i915 system I have boots without trouble. One of my nVidia-equipped systems boots to a blank screen with nouveau, and the other corrupts the alternate terminals.
I followed proposal (1) and here is my hard learning and experience: 1) After 12.1 installation from NET iso, my Asus AMD3/890GX ATI based machine wouldn't boot. I added 'nomodeset' manually both on the first boot screen, and later after login also in menu.lst. Result: 12.1 booted ok, but 'Gnome 3' started only in 'Fallback mode'. 2) During installation from NET iso, my Nvidia Quadro FX 3600M based machine wouldn't even boot after the first installation screen to load the installation program. I added 'nomodeset' manually, and then the installation went ok. Accordingly I also added 'nomodeset' in the menu.lst later. Result: 12.1 booted ok, but 'Gnome 3' started only in 'Fallback mode'. After much troubleshooting included upgrade to current Factory beside an unanswered bug report so far, I've found out the reason why Gnome 3/Clutter has not been able to start except in the primitive fallback-mode: 'nomodset' looks to disable the hardware accelerated graphic that is needed for Gnome3/Clutter to run. So after removing 'nomodeset' in menu.lst, the following results were achieved: 1) The ATI based machine still won't boot without nomodeset, so here is abviously an issue regarding kms, drm and/or the free radeonhd driver. 2) The Nvidia based machine booted ok and started Gnome 3/Clutter successful using the free nouveau and drm. I would just mentione this because there is also a drawback with 'nomodeset'. While some machines needs it even to boot, it causes the confusing that Gnome 3/Clutter breaks and just login to fallback mode. Rgds, Terje J. Hanssen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
On 09/24/2011 05:17 AM, Terje J. Hanssen wrote:
I would just mentione this because there is also a drawback with 'nomodeset'. While some machines needs it even to boot, it causes the confusing that Gnome 3/Clutter breaks and just login to fallback mode.
I guess I assumed that everyone on this list understood the consequences of "nomodeset". Of couse it disables 3D acceleration. For me, breaking Gnome 3 is a lot less harmful than a machine that will not boot into X. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
Le 24/09/2011 17:41, Larry Finger a écrit :
me, breaking Gnome 3 is a lot less harmful than a machine that will not boot into X.
specially on live cd jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-testing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-testing+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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jdd -
Larry Finger -
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky -
Per Jessen -
Terje J. Hanssen