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mark neidorff

19 Jul 2022 19 Jul '22

20:05

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Andrei Borzenkov

19 Jul 19 Jul

20:45

On 19.07.2022 23:05, mark neidorff wrote:

...

Yesterday, I got an update to 15.3--KDE environment...(yes, I haven't yet upgraded to 15.4) Download went fine. Install showed no problems. Installed the update and I'm getting total system lockups, only resolution is the power button. FWIW, my system does take snapshots as specified in the default installation. I have no idea what is causing the problem. Yesterday, just turning the computer on, and logging in would trigger a system freeze (power off required) today, I have been able so run some applications, but running Chrome causes a system freeze. This is a stock system. Anything I've added has come from the OPEN-SUES repos. Is this a known issue?

Does booting the previous kernel help?

...

If I should roll back to snapshot to before yesterday, should that restore things? If that is what I should do, as I can't really count on getting info from the system, how do I do the rollback? (I've NEVER had to do one before) Thank you a lot, Mark

DennisG

21:00

On 7/19/22 16:05, mark neidorff wrote:

...

Yesterday, I got an update to 15.3--KDE environment...(yes, I haven't yet upgraded to 15.4) Download went fine. Install showed no problems. Installed the update and I'm getting total system lockups, only resolution is the power button. FWIW, my system does take snapshots as specified in the default installation. I have no idea what is causing the problem. Yesterday, just turning the computer on, and logging in would trigger a system freeze (power off required) today, I have been able so run some applications, but running Chrome causes a system freeze. This is a stock system. Anything I've added has come from the OPEN-SUES repos. Is this a known issue?

If I should roll back to snapshot to before yesterday, should that restore things? If that is what I should do, as I can't really count on getting info from the system, how do I do the rollback? (I've NEVER had to do one before) Thank you a lot, Mark

I'd first check Chrome. it's definitely not from SUSE (Chromium, yes; Chrome, no). The most recent version of Chrome from the google repo (http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/rpm/stable/x86_64) is103.0.5060.134-1 updated 18 July. I suppose its conceivable that your update conflicted with the Chrome version you have. Try updating it. The next place I would look is for a kernel update. The last for 15.3 was 11 July, 5.3.18-150300.59.81.1. If your system is configured to keep more than 1 version (IMO, highly advisable), you can boot a prior version from grub under the Advanced line to test. --dg 15.3/Plasma

mark neidorff

21:26

mark neidorff

22 Jul 22 Jul

22:59

Felix Miata

23:29

mark neidorff composed on 2022-07-22 18:59 (UTC-0400):

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Have I missed anything?

Is everything OK booting the prior kernel? kernel-default-5.3.18-150300.59.81.1 was recalled. Maybe you're experiencing a reason why, and should remove it. -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata

Felix Miata

23:39

Felix Miata composed on 2022-07-22 19:29 (UTC-0400):

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mark neidorff composed on 2022-07-22 18:59 (UTC-0400):

...

...
Have I missed anything?

Telling us anything about the hardware this is happening on.

...

Is everything OK booting the prior kernel? kernel-default-5.3.18-150300.59.81.1 was recalled. Maybe you're experiencing a reason why, and should remove it.

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1201644 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1201664 -- Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion, based on faith, not based on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata

Carlos E. R.

23 Jul 23 Jul

20:48

On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...

Following up as of today. The computer sometimes hangs on login, sometimes on boot, sometimes in an app. So, either downloaded patch, disk or PC at fault. I downloaded a linux-lite live boot image, burned a DVD, and booted from that. Boots up fine....runs for days without crash. Checked disk with "badblacks" no errors. So, I think I've narrowed it down to a bad download. **IF ANYBODY HAS THE PROPER EAR, WITH THE POWERS THAT BE, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A WAY TO VERIFY A PATCH (md5 sum?) BEFORE INSTALLING IT.** So, now I think know my course, back up data, download latest version, install, reconfigure, restore data and get back to work. Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so. Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things). So yes, there are things you can do, without reinstalling. And no, you can not blame any md5 sum. All this is explained in the book (doc.opensuse.org). -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Robert Webb

22:40

On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...
[...] Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening. Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

...

So yes, there are things you can do, without reinstalling. And no, you can not blame any md5 sum.

All this is explained in the book (doc.opensuse.org). -- Robert Webb

Carlos E. R.

23:02

On 24/07/2022 00.40, Robert Webb wrote:

...

On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...
[...] Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening.

Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

Reverting to a previous snapshot can be destructive, while just booting the previous kernel gains critical information if it works: the person can then fill a bug report so that the problem can be solved. Revert to a previous snapshot recovers the machine, but then what? You can not ever do any update again. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Patrick Shanahan

24 Jul 24 Jul

00:59

* Carlos E. R. [07-23-22 19:04]:

...

On 24/07/2022 00.40, Robert Webb wrote:

...
On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...
[...] Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening.

Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

Reverting to a previous snapshot can be destructive, while just booting the previous kernel gains critical information if it works: the person can then fill a bug report so that the problem can be solved.

Revert to a previous snapshot recovers the machine, but then what? You can not ever do any update again.

booting a previous snapshot does not refert to that snapshot and is not destructive. reverting makes systemchanges but one should only do that after testing that snapshot and determing that is the correct action. booting a previous snapshot is similar to booting a previous kernel. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Carlos E. R.

10:49

On 24/07/2022 02.59, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. [07-23-22 19:04]:

...
On 24/07/2022 00.40, Robert Webb wrote:

...
On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...
[...] Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening.

Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

Reverting to a previous snapshot can be destructive, while just booting the previous kernel gains critical information if it works: the person can then fill a bug report so that the problem can be solved.

Revert to a previous snapshot recovers the machine, but then what? You can not ever do any update again.

booting a previous snapshot does not refert to that snapshot and is not destructive. reverting makes systemchanges but one should only do that after testing that snapshot and determing that is the correct action.

booting a previous snapshot is similar to booting a previous kernel.

But I did not say "booting" a previous snapshot, but "reverting" to a previous snapshot. There is a difference. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

Patrick Shanahan

11:25

* Carlos E. R. [07-24-22 06:50]:

...

On 24/07/2022 02.59, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
* Carlos E. R. [07-23-22 19:04]:

...
On 24/07/2022 00.40, Robert Webb wrote:

...
On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote:

...
[...] Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening.

Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

Reverting to a previous snapshot can be destructive, while just booting the previous kernel gains critical information if it works: the person can then fill a bug report so that the problem can be solved.

Revert to a previous snapshot recovers the machine, but then what? You can not ever do any update again.

booting a previous snapshot does not refert to that snapshot and is not destructive. reverting makes systemchanges but one should only do that after testing that snapshot and determing that is the correct action.

booting a previous snapshot is similar to booting a previous kernel.

But I did not say "booting" a previous snapshot, but "reverting" to a previous snapshot. There is a difference.

why would one revert to a previous snapshow without testing it first, or was completely unable to boot at all? booting to test the snapshot would be prudent. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Carlos E. R.

12:00

On 24/07/2022 13.25, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. <> [07-24-22 06:50]:

...
On 24/07/2022 02.59, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
* Carlos E. R. <> [07-23-22 19:04]:

...
On 24/07/2022 00.40, Robert Webb wrote:

...
On 2022-07-23 20:48Z, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 23/07/2022 00.59, mark neidorff wrote: > [...] > Have I missed anything?

In a default openSUSE installation, you always can boot the previous kernel. You haven't done so.

Also in a default openSUSE installation, you can revert to a previous snapshot, in this case the one before the update. You have not done this (only if using the previous kernel doesn't improve things).

Mark, you had asked how to boot a previous snapshot. Of course, read the docs Carlos referenced, but the one time I needed to do that, I just selected the entry in the Grub boot menu for doing that, and it at one point stated the command you need to invoke to always boot that snapshot after you check it out the first time. The only hard part was identifying which snapshot to use. It can be useful to look at the list of snapshots first, and rename or label the one from just before bad stuff started happening.

Carlos, why the preference for booting a previous kernel, rather than a previous snapshot? Without knowing, I assumed that using a previous snapshot would be the most direct way to go back to a (sort of) known working state. Also, are the kernels included in the snapshotting system, such that booting an old snapshot might use an older kernel?

Reverting to a previous snapshot can be destructive, while just booting the previous kernel gains critical information if it works: the person can then fill a bug report so that the problem can be solved.

Revert to a previous snapshot recovers the machine, but then what? You can not ever do any update again.

booting a previous snapshot does not refert to that snapshot and is not destructive. reverting makes systemchanges but one should only do that after testing that snapshot and determing that is the correct action.

booting a previous snapshot is similar to booting a previous kernel.

But I did not say "booting" a previous snapshot, but "reverting" to a previous snapshot. There is a difference.

why would one revert to a previous snapshow without testing it first, or was completely unable to boot at all? booting to test the snapshot would be prudent.

Fine, test it. I'm 99.99% confident that it will work. Doesn't provide new information, and once you commit to the previous, working, snapshot, you are stuck, you can no longer update the machine, ever, because you don't know what (of the myriad updated packages) caused it, can not report it, and nobody can solve the bug. Whereas booting the previous kernel, if it works, gives immediate information for reporting and solving; plus the reversion is much less invasive. Thus the order of things to do is: 1) boot previous kernel 2) if that fails, do a full revert of snapshot. Then update one package at a time till it fails again, then report. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.3 (Legolas))

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Andrei Borzenkov
Carlos E. R.
DennisG
Felix Miata
mark neidorff
Patrick Shanahan
Robert Webb

Leap 15.3 update received 7/18

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