[softwaremgmt] when to refresh?
Hi guys. If you read already the news on package management, there are some open issues we would like to have feedback from you. As you may know, now all operations on repositories are splitted, so you can add a repository without downloading metadata. But at some point to operate on them you need valid metadata and a binary cache. An example: zypper sa http://foo bar zypper search moo zypper install cuack for the search, you need cache, for the cache you need metadata. Should ZYpper exit and tell the user to refresh, or should it ask the user whether to refresh without exiting? In the case of YaST, should it download and refresh when adding the repos in inst_source, or should it do it during startup of the package selector? -- Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett Novell :: SUSE R&D, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
Den Thursday 19 July 2007 17:51:39 skrev Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett:
zypper sa http://foo bar
Maybe zypper should ask already at this point: "Repository added succesfully. Do you wish to download metadata (xx MB) now ? y/n?"
zypper search moo zypper install cuack
for the search, you need cache, for the cache you need metadata. Should ZYpper exit and tell the user to refresh, or should it ask the user whether to refresh without exiting?
Better to ask.
In the case of YaST, should it download and refresh when adding the repos in inst_source, or should it do it during startup of the package selector?
Could we have it ask "Download repository metadata now?" after adding repo in yast? Perhaps even with an estimated size of the download. If people select no, then it must do it on startup later. Personally I think it's more "natural" and intuitive that the metadata is downloaded when the repo is added. But of course most other package managers separate metadata download and repo adding completely. However to me the important thing is not so much when it's done, but mostly that the user gets clear information about what's happening when it's done. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
Martin Schlander napsal(a):
Den Thursday 19 July 2007 17:51:39 skrev Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett: [...]
In the case of YaST, should it download and refresh when adding the repos in inst_source, or should it do it during startup of the package selector?
Could we have it ask "Download repository metadata now?" after adding repo in yast? Perhaps even with an estimated size of the download.
My proposal for the Yast workflow is here: When adding a new repository in inst_sources: - Add a new option to the Media Type dialog (the first dialog displayed after pressing [Add]) - a check box with label "Download and parse metadata now", turned on by default. After entering URL and pressing [Next]: - Scan available products in the URL (there is usually just one product, but there might be more products) - For each found product: - probe repository type - download and display the message (if present) - download and display the license (if present), if it's not accepted remove the product - Display the new repositories in the table (Note that some files will be downloaded even if the metadata download is turned off.) After pressing [Finish]: - save repositories to /etc/zypp/repos.d, if the repository has just been created then download and parse metadata (if it hasn't been turned off) (download should be postponed to the end, see bug #208461) When starting the package manager: - refresh and parse all missing metadata (and also refresh the repositories which have autorefresh flag set) - start the package manager Any suggestions or improvements? Have a nice day! Ladislav -- Best Regards Ladislav Slezák Yast Developer ------------------------------------------------------------------------ SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: lslezak@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 960 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
* Ladislav Slezak <lslezak@suse.cz> [Jul 20. 2007 13:47]:
My proposal for the Yast workflow is here:
When adding a new repository in inst_sources:
- Add a new option to the Media Type dialog (the first dialog displayed after pressing [Add]) - a check box with label "Download and parse metadata now", turned on by default.
I agree to the concept but not to the wording, only experienced users will know what "download and parse metadata" means.
After entering URL and pressing [Next]:
- Scan available products in the URL (there is usually just one product, but there might be more products)
Huh ? Are there products encoded in the URL ? ;-)
- For each found product: - probe repository type - download and display the message (if present) - download and display the license (if present), if it's not accepted remove the product
This would include checking of repo accessability - but requires network access.
- Display the new repositories in the table
(Note that some files will be downloaded even if the metadata download is turned off.)
Which is fine, if users are told "Checking repository ..."
After pressing [Finish]:
- save repositories to /etc/zypp/repos.d, if the repository has just been created then download and parse metadata (if it hasn't been turned off) (download should be postponed to the end, see bug #208461)
When starting the package manager:
- refresh and parse all missing metadata (and also refresh the repositories which have autorefresh flag set)
Didn't we want to get rid of refresh/parse when starting package manager ?
- start the package manager
Klaus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
Dňa Pi 20. Júl 2007 14:05 Klaus Kaempf napísal:
* Ladislav Slezak <lslezak@suse.cz> [Jul 20. 2007 13:47]:
My proposal for the Yast workflow is here:
When adding a new repository in inst_sources:
- Add a new option to the Media Type dialog (the first dialog displayed after pressing [Add]) - a check box with label "Download and parse metadata now", turned on by default.
I agree to the concept but not to the wording, only experienced users will know what "download and parse metadata" means.
After entering URL and pressing [Next]:
- Scan available products in the URL (there is usually just one product, but there might be more products)
Huh ? Are there products encoded in the URL ? ;-)
- For each found product: - probe repository type - download and display the message (if present) - download and display the license (if present), if it's not accepted remove the product
This would include checking of repo accessability - but requires network access.
- Display the new repositories in the table
(Note that some files will be downloaded even if the metadata download is turned off.)
Which is fine, if users are told "Checking repository ..."
After pressing [Finish]:
- save repositories to /etc/zypp/repos.d, if the repository has just been created then download and parse metadata (if it hasn't been turned off) (download should be postponed to the end, see bug #208461)
When starting the package manager:
- refresh and parse all missing metadata (and also refresh the repositories which have autorefresh flag set)
Didn't we want to get rid of refresh/parse when starting package manager ?
I believe 'missing' is important word here. Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 20 July 2007 02:05:51 pm Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Didn't we want to get rid of refresh/parse when starting package manager ?
We wanted to get rid of it in the inst_source too. The question is, if there is no metadata, where do we do the refresh, and if the source is autorefresh, where do we do it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
* Duncan Mac-Vicar P. <dmacvicar@suse.de> [Jul 20. 2007 16:34]:
On Friday 20 July 2007 02:05:51 pm Klaus Kaempf wrote:
Didn't we want to get rid of refresh/parse when starting package manager ?
We wanted to get rid of it in the inst_source too.
The question is, if there is no metadata, where do we do the refresh, and if the source is autorefresh, where do we do it.
There are a couple of possibilities, ideally they would be configurable: Download metadata - when the repo is added (synchronous refresh, in foreground) - when network is available (asynchronous refresh, in background) - when needed (on-demand refresh, in foreground) The asynchronous refresh could either be done via NetworkManager (if enabled) or a cron job (depending on refresh interval and network availability). The autorefresh would ideally be done in a cron job, imho. Klaus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
* Martin Schlander <suse@linuxin.dk> [Jul 19. 2007 18:58]:
Den Thursday 19 July 2007 17:51:39 skrev Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett:
zypper sa http://foo bar
Maybe zypper should ask already at this point: "Repository added succesfully. Do you wish to download metadata (xx MB) now ? y/n?"
Being asked every time might annoy people. I'd like to see this configurable.
zypper search moo zypper install cuack
for the search, you need cache, for the cache you need metadata. Should ZYpper exit and tell the user to refresh, or should it ask the user whether to refresh without exiting?
Better to ask.
Same as above.
In the case of YaST, should it download and refresh when adding the repos in inst_source, or should it do it during startup of the package selector?
Could we have it ask "Download repository metadata now?" after adding repo in yast? Perhaps even with an estimated size of the download.
YaST is different from command line zypper and I agree that asking is right here.
If people select no, then it must do it on startup later.
The consequences of selecting 'no' should be made clear. (And maybe a 'Dont ask anymore' checkbox, configurable via menu)
Personally I think it's more "natural" and intuitive that the metadata is downloaded when the repo is added. But of course most other package managers separate metadata download and repo adding completely.
What concerns me most is error handling. Having mistyped a URL is pretty annoying when the tools dont report this immediately.
However to me the important thing is not so much when it's done, but mostly that the user gets clear information about what's happening when it's done.
Good point ! Klaus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
* Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett <dmacvicar@suse.de> [Jul 19. 2007 17:51]:
Hi guys.
If you read already the news on package management, there are some open issues we would like to have feedback from you.
As you may know, now all operations on repositories are splitted, so you can add a repository without downloading metadata. But at some point to operate on them you need valid metadata and a binary cache.
An example:
zypper sa http://foo bar zypper search moo zypper install cuack
for the search, you need cache, for the cache you need metadata. Should ZYpper exit and tell the user to refresh, or should it ask the user whether to refresh without exiting?
In the case of YaST, should it download and refresh when adding the repos in inst_source, or should it do it during startup of the package selector?
I'd also like to ask for the motivation behind immediate vs. delayed refresh. For 'zypper sa http://foo bar', why do user NOT want an immediate metadata download ? Lets see - the system is currently offline - the user is adding lots of repos in a batch - the user just wants to prep the system without using the repo immediately What else ? Imho, adding a repo (via zypper or yast) should at least check for reachability of the repo and give immediate feedback. (one might have mistyped the url, access an incompatible architecture, etc.) "zypper search moo" must have the metadata available. So if the data is not cached on the system, refresh must be done. "zypper install cuack", same as "zypper search" imho. Klaus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 20 July 2007 01:57:13 pm Klaus Kaempf wrote:
For 'zypper sa http://foo bar', why do user NOT want an immediate metadata download ?
Lets see - the system is currently offline - the user is adding lots of repos in a batch - the user just wants to prep the system without using the repo immediately What else ?
Imho, adding a repo (via zypper or yast) should at least check for reachability of the repo and give immediate feedback. (one might have mistyped the url, access an incompatible architecture, etc.)
Checking for reachability needs network access, which is you did not want above. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
* Duncan Mac-Vicar P. <dmacvicar@suse.de> [Jul 20. 2007 16:36]:
On Friday 20 July 2007 01:57:13 pm Klaus Kaempf wrote:
For 'zypper sa http://foo bar', why do user NOT want an immediate metadata download ?
Lets see - the system is currently offline - the user is adding lots of repos in a batch - the user just wants to prep the system without using the repo immediately What else ?
Imho, adding a repo (via zypper or yast) should at least check for reachability of the repo and give immediate feedback. (one might have mistyped the url, access an incompatible architecture, etc.)
Checking for reachability needs network access, which is you did not want above.
What do you propose for error checking and reporting ? Klaus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-softwaremgmt+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Duncan Mac-Vicar P. -
Duncan Mac-Vicar Prett
-
Klaus Kaempf -
Ladislav Slezak -
Martin Schlander -
Stanislav Visnovsky