[opensuse-releaseteam] Re: Xfce System Role for Leap 15.1? Already approved for Factory.
Maurizio Galli (MauG) schrieb:
On 4/9/19 3:13 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Maurizio Galli (MauG) schrieb:
I just wanted to ask if there is still time and it's ok to make the same change to skelcd-control-openSUSE Leap 15.1 branch as I did in https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/165
Leap will not offer XFCE in the role selection screen.
Ok, assuming that there is a chance to make such change in the future, I would appreciate some advice from you. I understand openQA needs some tuning for the upgrades. Anything else?
I appreciate your efforts, in fact I have users with XFCE on Leap to take care of too. So I'm very happy when XFCE doesn't cause trouble (never did). However, from a product point of view having two official/primary desktop environments already is luxury. I don't intend to add more. My main reason is that the ones taking care of the release don't scale arbitrarily. A primary desktop choice in my opinion comes with certain promises about quality and continuity. Those have to be supervised by someone. Automated test cases in openQA are key to that but still someone has to take care. Check failures, create needles, restart jobs, report bugs for QA, follow up on bug reports... Then QA or someone has to fix test cases etc. We do that for KDE and GNOME as they are primary choices. Issues with KDE or GNOME can hold back a snapshot and even the release after all. So for me putting XFCE into that role selection screen means promoting it to the same level as KDE and GNOME. Consequence in turn would be that we have to put the same effort. The effort for that is missing elsewhere then. I think we reached a fair compromise with the primary choices listed in the role selection while all other options are available via the "custom" option. I'd prefer to see the patterns cleaned up so the presentation in YaST can be done in a meaningful way¹ rather than abusing that role selection dialog for even more stuff. cu Ludwig [1] https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/900993#step/select_patterns_and_packages/2... -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Mary Higgins, Sri Rasiah, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+owner@opensuse.org
On 4/9/19 7:17 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Maurizio Galli (MauG) schrieb:
On 4/9/19 3:13 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote:
Maurizio Galli (MauG) schrieb:
I just wanted to ask if there is still time and it's ok to make the same change to skelcd-control-openSUSE Leap 15.1 branch as I did in https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/165
Leap will not offer XFCE in the role selection screen.
Ok, assuming that there is a chance to make such change in the future, I would appreciate some advice from you. I understand openQA needs some tuning for the upgrades. Anything else?
I appreciate your efforts, in fact I have users with XFCE on Leap to take care of too. So I'm very happy when XFCE doesn't cause trouble (never did). However, from a product point of view having two official/primary desktop environments already is luxury. I don't intend to add more. My main reason is that the ones taking care of the release don't scale arbitrarily. A primary desktop choice in my opinion comes with certain promises about quality and continuity. Those have to be supervised by someone. Automated test cases in openQA are key to that but still someone has to take care. Check failures, create needles, restart jobs, report bugs for QA, follow up on bug reports... Then QA or someone has to fix test cases etc. We do that for KDE and GNOME as they are primary choices. Issues with KDE or GNOME can hold back a snapshot and even the release after all. So for me putting XFCE into that role selection screen means promoting it to the same level as KDE and GNOME. Consequence in turn would be that we have to put the same effort. The effort for that is missing elsewhere then.
cu Ludwig
[1] https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/900993#step/select_patterns_and_packages/2...
Hi Ludwig, Thanks for clearing that out and I do understand your point. I think we are moving in the right direction and as the Xfce team grows we will keep doing so to one day reach the standards expected.
I think we reached a fair compromise with the primary choices listed in the role selection while all other options are available via the "custom" option. I'd prefer to see the patterns cleaned up so the presentation in YaST can be done in a meaningful way¹ rather than abusing that role selection dialog for even more stuff.
Just to give you a bit of background, I was personally not particularly enthusiastic of the "generic desktop" option because it adds additional steps and is not as intuitive as the older "custom install", which I liked a lot. A few others in the online communities I reside expressed similar concerns which eventually was one of the reasons that motivated me to do the work and push for a Xfce system role, which has been done for TW. Anyway I appreciate your time in explaining things to me as there are obviously many things I don't know yet and I'm learning along the way. I will probably bug you again about this when the new Leap 15.x or 16 :-). Cheers, -- Maurizio Galli (MauG) Xfce Team https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Xfce -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+owner@opensuse.org
Maurizio Galli (MauG) schrieb:
On 4/9/19 7:17 PM, Ludwig Nussel wrote: [...]
I think we reached a fair compromise with the primary choices listed in the role selection while all other options are available via the "custom" option. I'd prefer to see the patterns cleaned up so the presentation in YaST can be done in a meaningful way¹ rather than abusing that role selection dialog for even more stuff.
Just to give you a bit of background, I was personally not particularly enthusiastic of the "generic desktop" option because it adds additional steps and is not as intuitive as the older "custom install", which I liked a lot. A few others in the online communities I reside expressed similar concerns which eventually was one of the reasons that motivated me to do the work and push for a Xfce system role, which has been done for TW.
Anyway I appreciate your time in explaining things to me as there are obviously many things I don't know yet and I'm learning along the way.
I will probably bug you again about this when the new Leap 15.x or 16 :-).
What's basically needed is development resources from the yast team and a UX person. We need a solution that works for SLE, Leap and Tumbleweed without too much different code. The previous desktop selection was too openSUSE centric and the role selection coming from SLE on the other hand isn't really geared towards openSUSE. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Mary Higgins, Sri Rasiah, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-releaseteam+owner@opensuse.org
participants (2)
-
Ludwig Nussel -
Maurizio Galli (MauG)