Future plan … primary intrepreter and Python 3.13
Hi, so SUSE people around Python have discussed future plans and these are our suggested steps. If anybody has any strong opinions and arguments about it, please, speak now, or forever hold your peace: 1. We are NOT switching to 3.12 as our primary interpreter. It is a lot of work for not that big gain. We will rather focus on other stuff (see our plan about 3.13 below, for example). 2. We need to clean out our failing packages (https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/openSUSE:Factory?arch_x86_64=1&defaults=0&failed=1&repo_standard=1 filter on “python-” gives me 70 packages right now). 3. AFTER getting into better shape, we can switch off building of Python 3.9 packages. 3. Python 3.13.0 beta 1 should be released on Tuesday, 2024-05-07 (https://peps.python.org/pep-0719/). Without undue delay, we would start building Python modules for that and working on fixing MANY expected failures from that. By that, we could actually help upstream development hopefully, and we would be able to have working Python 3.13.0 sooner after the upstream release. Also, given the plans for that release (https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3130a5/) we expect A LOT of fallout. 4. 3.13.0 (or perhaps 3.13.1, we will see) will be then our next primary interpreter. Questions? Objections? Suggestions? Best, Matěj -- http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 I do not slay man or beast needlessly, and not gladly even when it is needed… War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. -- Faramir, Captain of Gondor
Hi, Am 14.03.24 um 10:06 schrieb Matěj Cepl:
Hi,
so SUSE people around Python have discussed future plans and these are our suggested steps. If anybody has any strong opinions and arguments about it, please, speak now, or forever hold your peace:
1. We are NOT switching to 3.12 as our primary interpreter. It is a lot of work for not that big gain. We will rather focus on other stuff (see our plan about 3.13 below, for example). 2. We need to clean out our failing packages (https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/openSUSE:Factory?arch_x86_64=1&defaults=0&failed=1&repo_standard=1 filter on “python-” gives me 70 packages right now). 3. AFTER getting into better shape, we can switch off building of Python 3.9 packages.
It should be noted that most of the currently failing python- packages don't fail because of python312 but because they fail in general. The latter only became evident by the rebuild trigger. A simple python312 fail can be fixed by skip_python312 for now. Also, we already have to skip_python39 for a bunch of packages because IPython has already dropped support for it. Check the unresolvables: https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/openSUSE:Factory?arch_x86_64=1&defaults=0&repo_standard=1&unresolvable=1 These must be fixed for the packages to rebuild and make general or python312 build failures visible again.
3. Python 3.13.0 beta 1 should be released on Tuesday, 2024-05-07 (https://peps.python.org/pep-0719/). Without undue delay, we would start building Python modules for that and working on fixing MANY expected failures from that. By that, we could actually help upstream development hopefully, and we would be able to have working Python 3.13.0 sooner after the upstream release. Also, given the plans for that release (https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-3130a5/) we expect A LOT of fallout. 4. 3.13.0 (or perhaps 3.13.1, we will see) will be then our next primary interpreter.
IMHO, there should not be a Factory-wide python313 flavor after some time has been given to upstream packages after the release of 3.13.0. And there should not be a switch to the primary interpreter at the same time as the introduction of the flavor. So better wait for 3.13.1 or 3.13.2 for the primary interpreter switch.
Questions? Objections? Suggestions?
python310 should also be switched off prior to activating a python313 flavor globally. Hopefully the cleanup for python39 has brought most of the necessary fixes for failing packages already.
Best,
Matěj
On Thu Mar 14, 2024 at 8:50 PM CET, Ben Greiner wrote:
https://build.opensuse.org/project/monitor/openSUSE:Factory?arch_x86_64=1&defaults=0&repo_standard=1&unresolvable=1 These must be fixed for the packages to rebuild and make general or python312 build failures visible again.
Well, that looks like just 17 python packages.
4. 3.13.0 (or perhaps 3.13.1, we will see) will be then our next primary interpreter.
IMHO, there should not be a Factory-wide python313 flavor after some time has been given to upstream packages after the release of 3.13.0. And there should not be a switch to the primary interpreter at the same time as the introduction of the flavor. So better wait for 3.13.1 or 3.13.2 for the primary interpreter switch.
We will see, there is no need to decide now, and at least we would be better prepared than this cycle (when 3.12.2 is already out and we are just getting ready).
Questions? Objections? Suggestions?
python310 should also be switched off prior to activating a python313 flavor globally. Hopefully the cleanup for python39 has brought most of the necessary fixes for failing packages already.
Most likely, DimStar won’t like to have too many versions building at once. Best, Matěj -- http://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, @mcepl@floss.social GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows. -- George Orwell: 1984
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Matěj Cepl