[opensuse-project] openSUSE & You: Contributing to our Project

First, apologies for cross-posting this, but it's relevant to more than just the opensuse-project@opensuse.org audience. In order to cut down the noise on other lists, I ask that all responses are sent to opensuse-project@opensuse.org only. Second, this is a 'from the heart' and somewhat 'off the cuff' post from me and me alone. This has not been reviewed by anyone else, so please don't interpret this as some kind of statement from the Board, the Project, or SUSE. This is just me, talking about things I see and giving advice that I hope will be useful to the majority of the people who read it. So, what is this all about? Well a lot of people talk to me, and after a very inspirational FOSDEM I got thinking about recurring trends of questions that come my way: "How does the openSUSE Project work?" "Who decides what happens?" "What do you need me to do?" "How do I get started?" These questions come from not only newcomers and potential newcomers to the Project, but also people I would consider 'veterans' who I would have assumed already knew the answers to these questions naturally. This post is my attempt to provide answers to these and related questions. 1 - How does the Project work? The Project is a self-organised, self-governed, community working on the openSUSE Distributions (Tumbleweed & Leap) as well as various other Free and Open Source Software, including OBS, openQA, OSEM, Portus, Machinery, and more. We have no Product Managers, Project Managers, or Community Managers. We have no Technical Committees or Steering Groups. For those who have read "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", openSUSE is very much a "Bazaar" and hardly anything like a "Cathedral". Whatever Teams we do have are self-organised by the members of those teams, with different ways of working together to accomplish whatever particular goals within the project they are working on. The Project does have the openSUSE Board [1], who's role is to 'lead' the Project by acting as a central point of contact and conflict resolution. In other words, they help keep everyone in the loop with what everyone else is doing, help resolve any conflicts that arise, and being the 'decision makers of last resort' in situations where decisions need to be made and there is no one else available or willing to do so. The Board is a little like the 'A-Team' - If you have a problem, if no one else can help, then the Board is there for you, either to help out, or help you find better help elsewhere. The Board is elected by the openSUSE Members [2], those contributors who have demonstrated sustained and substantial contributions to the Project. SUSE are the primary sponsor of the openSUSE Project. All SUSE employees are encouraged to contribute to the openSUSE Project. These contributions are carried out as 'peers'; No special treatment is granted to SUSE employees, in fact the employer of a contributor should be irrelevant within the openSUSE Project. In areas of particular interest or importance to SUSE, they may hire folk to work in particular roles within the openSUSE Project. With one exception (the role of Chairman of the Board), none of these roles should be considered 'exclusive' to SUSE. There is scope for anyone to contribute to the openSUSE project at any level, assuming they are willing and capable to do the work. 2 - Who decides what happens? You Do We are driven by our contributions. If something is not being done, it's because no one has decided to do it. We do our best to make openSUSE very accessible in order to make us the natural choice to be the Project through which you give your time & effort. The openSUSE Project is structured the way it is to empower our contributors to really shape the direction of the Project. Also a significant amount of the tools we have as a Project exist in order to make those contributions easier. OBS and OSEM are obvious examples, but this is true in all aspects of the project, from the technical ones to the diverse range of other activities, marketing, advocacy, outreach, community, wiki, documentation, etc. You don't need to ask permission to get started, you just need to know what you want to do. 3 - What do you need me to do? You Decide Please don't be terrified by this! To quote The Cathedral and the Bazaar, "Every good work [...] starts by scratching a [...] personal itch.". Find things inside openSUSE, our Project, our distributions, our tools, our wiki, that you do not like, that affect you, that get in your way, and decide to change them. While it may sound selfish, there is no better motivation than solving the issues which affect you first and foremost, the benefit of doing that as part of a community means your work ends up helping others, and others will in turn help you when they share that same itch that needs scratching. Don't expect someone else to do it. Don't think it is someone else's job to fix. It is your responsibility to help make openSUSE succeed in the areas that matter to you And don't expect anyone else to tell you what to do or what needs doing - volunteers are rarely motivated when given orders from others, so that just isn't typically the openSUSE way. That said, I do believe we could do with having some indications of particular areas where we need help..the new openSUSE Mentoring website [3] is a perfect example of something the Project now has to solve this problem (Thanks to Chris and Henne and everyone else who has contributed to this!) In the highly unlikely event that you think everything is wonderful and there is nothing that annoys you, but you still want to give something back to the openSUSE project, then dig a little deeper, try something new, either technically in our products, or get involved in a new aspect of the Project that interests you - I guarantee you'll find something somewhere which could do with your help. 4 - How to get started? So, you've picked something to work on, how to get started. Here is my advice. 4a. Do your homework - Make sure you understand the topic you're tackling. Dig through the problem to make sure you haven't missed something. Read our wiki pages on the topic. Google. Look at how other FOSS Projects deal with the problem? Is their solution better or worse that what you are thinking? Talk to people who might know stuff about the topic, and bounce your ideas off them. Our IRC channels are a good place for such discussions, as are events like our openSUSE Conferences. 4b. Plan your solution - You've decided what you want to do, decide how you intend to do it. You don't need to have all the details worked out, but you should have a clear understanding of the direction you want to go in, and how things should look when you are done 4c. Do you need help? Is this going to impact other people in a noticeable way? Do you want a second opinion? If the answers to any of these questions are yes, continue to 4d. If no, skip to 4h 4d. Share with the Project - Take everything you have learned, and what you plan, and put it all together in a clear, succinct email for the mailinglists. Avoid writing open ended questions. Despite everyone's best intentions, coming to the Project with a question like "What do you think we should do about X?" will lead to either silence, or an almost infinite number of responses, many of which will disagree with you, often without proposing alternatives. Write the email from the perspective of "This is what I think we need to do, and this is what I intend to do about it". Describe your findings from step 4a, explain your plan from step 4b. Include proof of concepts if you have them. Post this mail to an appropriate mailinglist [4]. If you cannot identify an appropriate list, or you think the topic is deserving of a project-wide audience, then use either opensuse-factory@opensuse.org for technical changes, and opensuse-project@opensuse.org for everything else. Once you are happy the email makes it possible for everyone else to understand the problem, and that this is your problem and you are going to solve it, fire away. Now it is the responsibility of everyone else in the Project to convince you that you need to do things differently. 4e. Listen - the openSUSE Project is full of very clever people. Listen to their feedback, consider it. Your proposal included your reasoning, their feedback should be equally reasoned and informative, and so even a 'failure' of a proposal at this point is a learning experience. 4f. Respond - fast feedback drives innovation. If people are giving you feedback, discuss back with them, tell them when you agree with what they're saying, tell them when you disagree and why. This is how you will find other people to work with you on this thing. 4g. Decide - You do not need to accept all, or any, of the feedback. If nothing comes up that convinces you to deviate from your plan, then carry on as you planned. If something gets in the way, then work together to find a solution, either one that includes a compromise that everyone is equally unhappy with, or one where 'both' options are possible. This is an aspect of the openSUSE community that we often overlook - when we have two sets of contributors wanting to pull in two different directions, our collective natural instinct is to often find a way of accomplishing *both* - How else do you think we ended up with KDE, GNOME, XFCE, LXDE, Enlightenment, etc? This is a good thing, makes our project reflect everything which our contributions want to work on, and something which really sets us apart from many other Projects out there 4h. Do it 4i. Talk about it! Our statistics show that the openSUSE Project is on the up and up, and we are in many ways ahead of a great many similar projects who are often perceived as being more successful than us. A big part of that is because we excel at doing stuff, and are lousy about talking about it. So this is a call to action to ask that everyone reading this email keeps in mind the cool stuff that they're working on as part of openSUSE, and talk about it. Social media, conferences, meetups, whenever you get a chance, tell the world about what you're doing. It is not just a case of being 'Green and Proud', but talking about recent successes often leads to conversations that reveal what the next challenge is, and so the cycle continues, but at least it's a lot of fun ;) Thanks to all for reading this. Hopefully it is food for thought for old and new contributors alike. I intend to throw this up on some blog sometime, or find a way of squishing some of these thoughts onto the wiki, so please direct any feedback and discussion to the opensuse-project@opensuse.org mailinglist where I promise to listen and respond ;) - Richard [1] https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board [2] https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Members [3] https://opensuse.github.io/mentoring/ [4] https://lists.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

make those contributions easier. OBS and OSEM are obvious examples,
I guess OSEM stands for Opensuse Event Manager. I would suggest to explain the acronym on the sites that use it like https://events.opensuse.org/ Or to not use a acronym at all. That would make the site more "accessible" to outsiders (Same for OBS and all acronyms) I did not find a way to change this myself. When I login to the above site I can only change my profile.
4i. Talk about it! Our statistics show that the openSUSE Project is on the up and up,
Awesome :) Where do I find current statistics. I would like to update this site: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Statistics https://de.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Statistics and maybe the wikipedia sites. Please respond also to my personal mail. I am not subscribed to opensuse-project, only to factory (enough traffic for me) thx, tomme -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 2 February 2016 at 08:07, Thomas Langkamp <thomas.lassdiesonnerein@gmx.de> wrote:
I get your point, but I didn't want to go into too much detail about specific products of the openSUSE Project, so I kept things to the acronyms and hoped that if people were interested they'd look up the details.
The latest full round of statistics are not yet published, partially because we want to collect a little more (would be nice to have at least a 3 month picture of Leap for example) and partially because they take a LOT of analysis for the numbers to be meaningful and people are busy (AFAIK Alberto is the only one working on this). I do have some numbers from recent months, like Tumbleweeds user numbers upto about November - http://i.imgur.com/UnuN1et.png and the preliminary statistics for Leap all sound promising I'd hope we'd have something put together for this years openSUSE Conference Also at FOSDEM I bumped into Fedora's statistics expert and we exchanged cards with an eye to work together on shared methodologies and such, this is an area we're interested in - though at the same time, there is a limit to the value of statistics. After all, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. As long as the openSUSE community is happy, productive, and successful to it's own measure of success, then I think the numbers are just nice to have alongside that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 02.02.2016 08:07, Thomas Langkamp wrote:
Both are open source projects with their names and acronyms... OSEM -> http://osem.io OBS -> http://openbuildservice.org Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Thomas Langkamp <thomas.lassdiesonnerein@gmx.de> wrote:
I'm glad to see someone else has recognized the stumbling block to a new member of the community that acronyms and other abbreviations represent. A step in the direction of lowering the cost of using short terms for more expensive typing exercises that are self-explanatory is the Hyper-Text Markup Language (HTML) <abbr> tag. It is supported by properly configured wikimedia sites as illustrated on https://en.opensuse.org/User:PatrickDGarvey/Abbreviations. Mousing over a tagged abbreviation pops up whatever is in the title parameter of the tag. As illustrated by the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures entry on the referenced page, the abbr tag can be used inside other markup. The title value need not be limited to a simple expansion of the abbreviation, either. I don't yet know what limit is normally placed on the length of the title value, but it can contain other markup under several circumstances (dependent upon the software interpreting the tag). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

PatrickD Garvey wrote:
You're missing one very key abbreviation - TLA. :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 02/02/2016 14:42, Per Jessen a écrit :
and TSP :-) Travel Support Program (I think) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:46 AM, jdd <jdd@dodin.org> wrote:
Uh, I wasn't looking for additions to my list. (There's a community contributed list also, https://en.opensuse.org/Acronyms ) I was trying to indicate how we could all improve the accessibility of our web pages to new members of the openSUSE community. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 5:42 AM, Per Jessen <per@computer.org> wrote:
I usually use that one to illustrate the negative aspect of acronyms. I'm usually surprised to find I have met another person who does not know about Three Letter Acronyms, given they use so many of them in casual conversation. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/01/2016 09:49 PM, Richard Brown wrote:
I think that should be one of the main goals of the openSUSE Conference. To turn those veteran users into contributors, removing single points of failure in the process. There are quite some things within the project that would benefit from more hands, and sure there are some hands looking for something to do. We should have a series of talks/workshops/BoFs about that. In my side, I plan to have session "openSUSE needs you: software.opensuse.org" (tentative title) to fix the issue that the mentioned page highly depends on coolo and myself looking for some spare minutes now and then, with no time to do deep changes/fixes. And something similar happens with several areas/pieces of the project that are in kind of minimum-effort maintenance mode. Let's use openSUSE Conference to fix that, maybe with a whole series of "openSUSE needs you" topics, like software.o.o, translation, marketing release process...
[stripping the rest.... it's huge] :-)
-- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 2 February 2016 at 12:31, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
I totally agree, and in fact I thought about doing an "oSC & You" email as a follow up on this..but it looks like you've started to beat me to it :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/02/2016 10:01 PM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa wrote:
What sort of help are you after with software.o.o ? Now that Leap and enlightenment releases are out the way i'm starting to get back to my project of "Recolor all the openSUSE websites wiki-forums-connect-softare-everything else" to match the openSUSE branding and guidelines (as well as the new front page), if people are after a improved software.o.o front end I can probably look at that while i'm there or after. As a side note if anyone knows where the theme for the forum is kept could they forward the info to me (on or off list) its the one I didn't manage to trackdown in github, everything else I think I have. Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/02/2016 10:31 PM, Simon Lees wrote:
Sorry for the late reply. I have been busy. I'm trying to summarize and shape everything into a talk. But, here are some links grouped by topic, in no particular order: 1) Content (wording, info available, organization, etc.) http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-web/2015-11/msg00001.html https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o/issues/39 (related to previous) https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/8804 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=953927 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=865731 https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o/issues/55 2) Searching and communication with OBS (most of them are caused by wrong assumptions from software.o.o on how the distro and/or ports are handled in OBS) https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=953773 https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/10490 https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=930505 https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=948370 https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o/issues/57 https://github.com/openSUSE/software-o-o/issues/56 3) Others https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/10346 https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/7578 As you can see, the whole thing needs some love. Even the automated tests are broken right now. My challenge is to come up with a understandable full picture and kind of a plan so I can scream for help in more concrete ways (although the call from help in the first link was already focused enough... and didn't resulted in any help). Cheers
[Rest of the mail stripped]
PS.- cc'ing people who already contacted me off-list asking for details. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Ancor, On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
I very much believe call for help does not help always. But, I have given a thought over it for quite a while now. I do not know if these are the best steps, but this is what I think can be a good start. 1. Really come out of hallway conversations. For example, mentoring 101 was practically, started within a few discussions inside a corner, and was just done. It is great. However, once the development started the discussions (if there were any) should really be done at opensuse-web (all of them). This goes to OSEM, the landing page. There have been discussions in the past about all of the projects, like hey this is how it looks, please give feedback. This can only create more people who want to give feedback, but not contributors in terms of code or anything other than that. So, developers really need to go out, learn to handle a bit of trolling but talk in public. 2. Send commit messages to the relevant mailing list. So if it is opensuse-web related project, then send commit messages. It will make people aware of the development. With so many projects, it is really difficult to find something on github. 3. Send new bugs that are created to the relevant mailing lists. This will people know about the bugs in the systems, and make them aware. I might want to throw in a reminder of open bugs once a month, but I am not sure of the strategy. 4. GSoC, encourage mailing list conversations. This is something I have wished for long, but did not put in any effort to achieve this. All the Google Summer of Code discussions should be done at the relevant mailing lists. Private Mentor-Student topics should be limited to personal conversations. This has in the past helped projects like apache get a better success rate in long term students. I will be interested in knowing the communities opinion.
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey Manu, On 19.02.2016 19:40, Manu Gupta wrote:
1. Really come out of hallway conversations.
I fully agree with this statement. However I have a problem with your definition of 'hallway' :-)
All of the discussions (except the initial one that Chris/Cornelius/Me wanted to do something for mentoring) happened inside the github project where everyone can participate... https://github.com/openSUSE/mentoring/issues?q=is%3Aissue+label%3AAdministra...
This goes to OSEM
OSEM is another example where everything happens publicly in the github project https://github.com/openSUSE/osem in the IRC channel irc://freenode.net#osem and on opensuse-web.
2. Send commit messages to the relevant mailing list. 3. Send new bugs that are created to the relevant mailing lists.
If you want notifications about stuff happening in some openSUSE repository on github use the notifications of github. BTW this is what developers already do! New developers hang out on github and we need to draw them in there, not on some openSUSE mailing list :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey Henne On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 7:46 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Agreed.
Yup, I can see that now. I checked osem.io a couple of months back and it did not have opensuse-web on it.
Yes and I cannot agree more. It is not about me here :). It is about what concrete steps can we take that can increase our reach to other contributors(not just developers). It is also about considering that in search of new contributors, are we ignoring older contributors and how do we make a proper trade-off between the two? If I have to evaluate my own suggestions or any other suggestion, I will evaluate them on these metrics 1. Are there any potential side effects in taking these steps? 2. In the long term, do they drive people away from our development repositories or drive them towards it? 3. Is the communication better, and more transparent if we take these steps? 4. Is it more inclusive for old and new contributors? 5. If there is a project wide change to be made, who are the decision makers, is it the people who write code or is it everyone who has contributed to the project in one way or the other? 6. How can you make sure you can reach out to most of them (if not everyone) who has contributed (not just code here, feedback, bugs, marketing, outreach, news etc.) in the project? 7. How can you make sure that the decisions surrounding these projects are in a persistent archive? (One reason I feel that conferences are a great place to start discussions, but not decisions, the same goes for IRCs too) What do you think of these metrics, and how can we point 2 & 3, stand on that metric or any other measure that we can take to improve the current scenario? If proposals are doable (if someone volunteers to do it), and if we think a particular suggestion stands well on the above metrics, I think we should go for it.
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 23.02.2016 17:49, Manu Gupta wrote:
For what exactly? I'm a bit at loss at what you want to achieve here. Come up with a check list for new development projects? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Nope, But for my proposal 1. Getting git commits over specific mailing lists 2. Send bugs to the relevant mailing list At the end of the day, is it better than doing nothing at all. Does it add value? On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 8:37 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 25.02.2016 04:50, Manu Gupta wrote:
I don't believe it does no, as there are way better ways to follow development, that everybody that want's to collaborate in any way, can use... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Ok, there are two things 1. Is it better than the current state? -->I think so because a lot of projects do so and they are successful I can give you two big examples : Apache (http://wiki.apache.org/cassandra/FrontPage) and Linux Kernel (https://lkml.org/) Now, if there is some way I can make that happen and work with the admin, I am willing to put in effort in it. 2. Are there better ways? --> Yes off course, there are, and I would love to hear them, and see if it is possible to work on them. Between, I do think that openSUSE Mentorship platform is amazing, and is a step in the right direction.
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 25.02.2016 16:59, Manu Gupta wrote:
Ok, there are two things
You've lost me again. If you want me to do something can you please be a bit more practical and less theoretical? Thanks in advance :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
So, I am suggesting git commits over relevant mailing lists, and how is that not practical?
-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 25 February 2016 at 18:10, Manu Gupta <manugupt1@gmail.com> wrote:
If people want to fill their inbox with notifications about everything going on in a github project they can use GitHubs 'watch' feature https://github.com/openSUSE/landing-page/subscription I think this is infinitely more practical than a commit mailinglist Alternatively, you could write a bot to scrape commits and mail them somewhere. If such a bot existed for all the repos in question, we could make a mailinglist for the bot, like we did for the various *-commit@opensuse.org mailinglists But most of those lists have less than 10 subscribers, so I think your argument that somehow sending commits to a mailinglist = contributors is one lacking any evidence. Regards Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 4:46 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
According to the date of the oldest closed pull request in https://github.com/openSUSE/mentoring, it appears the mentoring repository was established some time in the last quarter of 2015. What did "Chris/Cornelius/Me" do at that time to publicize the existence of a "something for mentoring" effort? I don't think the establishment of a new repository is a very strong signal to a community spread across an ecosystem as dispersed as the openSUSE project. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 26.02.2016 01:57, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
https://news.opensuse.org/2016/01/14/opensuse-expands-outreach-for-google-su... The first time on this list Chris mentioned 101 in his call's for GSoC projects somewhat early February. We are going to make more noise about it if we get accepted to GSoC which will be the first time we seriously use this 'program'. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 2:35 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
So, I infer that everyone in the openSUSE project is expected to follow https://news.opensuse.org/ so efforts like this can be revealed to the community. I'll do that now that I understand that is where such notice is regularly posted. But do those using the forums, for instance, yet know of the existence of the mentoring repository?
The first time on this list Chris mentioned 101 in his call's for GSoC projects somewhat early February.
So, at least two months passed before further publicity was given to "101", which I take it is shorthand for http://101.openSUSE.org
We are going to make more noise about it if we get accepted to GSoC which will be the first time we seriously use this 'program'.
If we are accepted to the Google Summer of Code, wouldn't it be nice to have some idea of who will be mentoring our offering to GSoC and who the mentee might be? That is, shouldn't the planning for our GSoC effort take the time currently available to move forward in optimistic anticipation so we can take full advantage of the short, unyielding schedule of the passing of Summer?
Henne
Is it possible for the mentoring repository to be used for other efforts to grow the number of participants in the openSUSE project? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 26 February 2016 at 14:09, PatrickD Garvey <patrickdgarveyt@gmail.com> wrote:
They should do so - all news.opensuse.org articles are also available on the openSUSE Forums https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/512778-openSUSE-expands-outreach-... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 26.02.2016 14:09, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
Yes, so? :-)
Projects and mentors are already selected http://101.opensuse.org/gsoc/#projects There are also some students already who have shown interest and are working on the introduction tasks...
GSoC won't happen if we are not selected as mentoring organization. Selection by Google happens next Monday 29 February 19:00 UTC. Once this we have taken this hurdle we (and the GSoC team in general) will actively seek for students for the projects.
Is it possible for the mentoring repository to be used for other efforts to grow the number of participants in the openSUSE project?
Yes we have specifically designed this so we can run other outreach programs through it. But first things first: GSoC :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:52 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Time that passes is irrecoverable. Having worked for an airline, I am aware of what a perishable commodity looks like. Time is the ultimate perishable.
Excellent.
There are also some students already who have shown interest and are working on the introduction tasks...
Even better.
Again, that seems to show a waiting for someone else to act. Time passes, whether it is effectively used or not. I hope some encouraging communication has already happened between the identified mentors and mentees. At least a "Thank you for your interest" email has been exchanged?
So 101 is targeting only University level students found through already financed outreach programs? Maybe there are some people currently within the community who are seeking mentoring (without compensation)? Wouldn't if be useful to move the projects identified forward with the work of a noobie? Or are these projects to be left idle until the next outreach funding opportunity is available? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 26.02.2016 15:51, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
Thank you Captain Obvious! ;-)
A lot more than friendly emails has happened. Students are actively working on issues together with their future would-be mentors.
No, why? It's for all mentoring that is going to happen @openSUSE in the future.
Maybe there are some people currently within the community who are seeking mentoring (without compensation)?
I'm sure there are.
Wouldn't if be useful to move the projects identified forward with the work of a noobie?
They are.
Or are these projects to be left idle until the next outreach funding opportunity is available?
No. I'm beginning to wonder if you have looked at the page... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
I agree "Time that passes is irrecoverable." should be obvious to anyone who has tried to make progress on anything. That's why I was puzzled that such a large block of time had passed with no obvious communication about what I saw as a valuable addition to the openSUSE project, a pointedly purposeful attempt to encourage mentored participation.
Excellent.
Good.
Good to hear that's a shared opinion.
I thought I had and, you're right, this conversation has shown me I missed something. So I went back and reread the landing page of 101.openSUSE.org. Biased by my exchange with Ancor Gonzalez Sosa < https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-02/msg00147.html > I was operating under the mistaken understanding that GSoC was the focus of 101.openSUSE.org. I also missed expanding the link at the end of "Still not convinced this is right for you? Check out a more detailed description." which would have given me a deeper understanding of the context of this effort. I regret that relative to the FLOSS set of software development tools, I'm still working on getting to the first level. I have worked professionally with IBM System/360 Assembler, PL/I, JCL, EXEC, and AIX along with the CA Panvalet code library system, so I understand the software development process, just not the particular tools used in openSUSE. Thank you for your patience in guiding me to an understanding that the mentoring effort was not as limited as I first thought it was. I'm sorry it diverted you from other more valuable uses of your time. For me, it's back to climbing up to level 1. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Ancor Gonzalez Sosa <ancor@suse.de> wrote:
Will you be offering yourself as a Mentor for software.opensuse.org on https://opensuse.github.io/mentoring/ ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/05/2016 11:01 PM, PatrickD Garvey wrote:
I'm already a (co)mentor for three projects there. I'm not sure I can handle a fourth one. Indeed, even three projects could be too much. :-) In the past I already struggled a lot trying to mentor two projects in one summer. Moreover, GSoC is not always successful in creating long-time relationships between the open source project and the student. We would most likely get quite some fixes from GSoC (very much needed), but not sure if we would get more long-time maintainers (even more needed). Cheers. -- Ancor González Sosa YaST Team at SUSE Linux GmbH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

make those contributions easier. OBS and OSEM are obvious examples,
I guess OSEM stands for Opensuse Event Manager. I would suggest to explain the acronym on the sites that use it like https://events.opensuse.org/ Or to not use a acronym at all. That would make the site more "accessible" to outsiders (Same for OBS and all acronyms) I did not find a way to change this myself. When I login to the above site I can only change my profile.
4i. Talk about it! Our statistics show that the openSUSE Project is on the up and up,
Awesome :) Where do I find current statistics. I would like to update this site: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Statistics https://de.opensuse.org/MediaWiki:Statistics and maybe the wikipedia sites. Please respond also to my personal mail. I am not subscribed to opensuse-project, only to factory (enough traffic for me) thx, tomme -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On 2 February 2016 at 08:07, Thomas Langkamp <thomas.lassdiesonnerein@gmx.de> wrote:
I get your point, but I didn't want to go into too much detail about specific products of the openSUSE Project, so I kept things to the acronyms and hoped that if people were interested they'd look up the details.
The latest full round of statistics are not yet published, partially because we want to collect a little more (would be nice to have at least a 3 month picture of Leap for example) and partially because they take a LOT of analysis for the numbers to be meaningful and people are busy (AFAIK Alberto is the only one working on this). I do have some numbers from recent months, like Tumbleweeds user numbers upto about November - http://i.imgur.com/UnuN1et.png and the preliminary statistics for Leap all sound promising I'd hope we'd have something put together for this years openSUSE Conference Also at FOSDEM I bumped into Fedora's statistics expert and we exchanged cards with an eye to work together on shared methodologies and such, this is an area we're interested in - though at the same time, there is a limit to the value of statistics. After all, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. As long as the openSUSE community is happy, productive, and successful to it's own measure of success, then I think the numbers are just nice to have alongside that. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Hey, On 02.02.2016 08:07, Thomas Langkamp wrote:
Both are open source projects with their names and acronyms... OSEM -> http://osem.io OBS -> http://openbuildservice.org Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 11:07 PM, Thomas Langkamp <thomas.lassdiesonnerein@gmx.de> wrote:
I'm glad to see someone else has recognized the stumbling block to a new member of the community that acronyms and other abbreviations represent. A step in the direction of lowering the cost of using short terms for more expensive typing exercises that are self-explanatory is the Hyper-Text Markup Language (HTML) <abbr> tag. It is supported by properly configured wikimedia sites as illustrated on https://en.opensuse.org/User:PatrickDGarvey/Abbreviations. Mousing over a tagged abbreviation pops up whatever is in the title parameter of the tag. As illustrated by the Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures entry on the referenced page, the abbr tag can be used inside other markup. The title value need not be limited to a simple expansion of the abbreviation, either. I don't yet know what limit is normally placed on the length of the title value, but it can contain other markup under several circumstances (dependent upon the software interpreting the tag). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

PatrickD Garvey wrote:
You're missing one very key abbreviation - TLA. :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.3°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Le 02/02/2016 14:42, Per Jessen a écrit :
and TSP :-) Travel Support Program (I think) jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (10)
-
Ancor Gonzalez Sosa
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Henne Vogelsang
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jdd
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Manu Gupta
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Martin Pluskal
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PatrickD Garvey
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Per Jessen
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Richard Brown
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Simon Lees
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Thomas Langkamp