[opensuse-project] Has openSUSE as a project approached Valve re the possible upcoming Steam for Linux?
Steam for Linux has been floated a few times starting int 2010. A few days ago Phoronix posted some information about how far Valve has come with producing a Steam client for Linux, including showing a port of Left for Dead 2 running natively on Ubuntu. Today I spotted this: http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/04/canonical-in-touch-with-valve-to-ensure.h... and this made me wonder... are we (as a project) also approaching Valve in some official capacity to ensure that this Steam for Linux client works "perfectly" on openSUSE too? Gamers are a huge driver in the adoption of technology, and a market segment we can't really afford to ignore. If this Steam for Linux client is released and is dependent on some library that is built only for Ubuntu, or is only released in DEB package format... well, we WILL be left behind in the rush. C. -- openSUSE 12.1 x86_64, KDE 4.8.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 09:26 +0200, C wrote:
I was thinking of trying to touch base with them. However, I'm not confident our devs would even allow the Steam client into the repos. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, April 29, 2012 02:26:30 AM C wrote:
SUSE as company can do that, but openSUSE as cloud like entity is not really interesting for Valve [1]. They need someone that can guarantee that game store for openSUSE users will be present in every release, visible and easy to use. Games will ask for certain level of stability in every release, easy access to proprietary graphic drivers and possible more proprietary components, that could mean more mandatory purchases of other components that make multimedia support for games. With current SUSE goals, to serve enterprise market, not individual consumers, this would require serious adjustment in openSUSE treatment, or creating completely new edition that will be supported for a longer time, media oriented, purchase based [2]. Will that benefit openSUSE? I think yes, specially that openSUSE doesn't need much adjustments, nor much time to create product that will support media stuff. Problem is public perception reflected on http://www.distrowatch.com , http://alexa.com [3] and probably other sites, that openSUSE is similar to Fedora. It is obvious that Ubuntu has some advantage, at least in size of user base, and public perception that they are friendly distro for beginners and all that want to use computer, but not to dive in computer internals. openSUSE can fix that in a few years, that much needed Ubuntu to raise from newcomer on the Linux scene to the most used distro. But, that will not happen with current goals that cut fine to linux oldtimers, do-it-yourself guys, but not to current trends where more users are coming that use computer to do stuff that is not computer configuration. [1] You can see it, but you can't touch it, nor sign even the weakest form of agreement unless you go to chase every droplet that makes cloud. [2] Purchase. It is not simple purchase installation CD. It could be purchase game with link to site that will provide installation ISO, offer CD/DVD to order with preinstalled game(s), [3] http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org# There is slight drop comparing to last year. Also, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ubuntu.com . -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
A couple of points based on your comments Rajko. - Any points we make are pure speculation on what Valve may do if they release a Steam Client for Linux. The only way we can possibly know what's planned is if we contact Valve as a project (a single user standing alone will likely not get much traction in finding out what's happening and what can be done) - Your comments lead me to conclude that you've never used Steam on Windows, nor have you used Desura on Linux. I'll explain why with my comments in-line. On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 00:53, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
A game client like Steam or Desura does not require a game store be present in every release. The principle of the client is that the user downloads the client from the distributor (that would be Valve for the Steam client not openSUSE repos) and installs (ie, it's not distributed via the openSUSE repos, it falls under the same process as Steam, TeamViewer etc where a user installs the client downloaded from an external source). Once installed they launch the client and the client manages all commercial or open source games for them - this is exactly what Desura is doing now (for both commercial and open source games), and the exact model used for Steam on Windows and OSX. Games are managed 100% by the client (following the current Desura model which is pretty much the same as the Steam for Windows model... and it makes sense for now that the Steam for Linux model will do the same). This means that any games installed are self contained. They provide statically linked libraries for the game - so that the game developer does not have to rely on locally installed libraries being in place and the right version. This works very well with Desura. Why not just stick with the fact that Desura sort of works on openSUSE? Well... because Desura sort of works (issues with trailers not working in the client), and Desura does not have the industry clout that Valve does. Valve is a multi-billion dollar/Euro company that top tier game developers are very interested in co-operating with.
Yes the stability is a factor.. sure, but that applies to the distro in general. Proprietary drivers... we already provide that via the Community repos... so what's the issue there? Theoretical mandatory purchases of other components would logically need to be managed by the client, not openSUSE since said components should be game specific... again I don't see the issue here. If a specific game needs some proprietary bits, those bits need to be included in the game purchase or available via the client, not managed by the distro... it's not the distro's business what a commercial application is doing.. that is no different to the situation as it is today. Basically, do not mix up games and the client, they are two different animals.
That's SUSE, not openSUSE and it doesn't make any sense that SUSE pursue this.
A few years will be too late. This is a one time opportunity. If... if Steam for Linux is actually released, and say that it runs well on Ubuntu because they are *already* in there assisting, but there is no RPM released, or the client fails to install on openSUSE because of something simple like a library naming convention difference (this specific issue has happened over and over with openSUSE), we will be left in the dust. We can ignore it... that's the "easy" way, and if this client is released as is hinted at, the uptake of Linux goes the way speculated, openSUSE risks being left as a "once-was-great, but they missed the boat". OK, that may be a bit over the top, but hopefully you see my point here.
This is not how Steam works.. not at all. Not even remotely close. There are no installation ISOs. Steam is not a webshop, it is a delivery and management platform - the closest analogy we have on openSUSE is... YaST. If your view of Steam is that it's a simple webshop where users can purchase a CD/DVD, you really need to go check it out because you are way off the mark here. C. -- openSUSE 12.1 x86_64, KDE 4.8.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, April 30, 2012 02:04:19 AM C wrote:
No, I didn't use them. I actually thought it is a important game engine making port to Linux worth of public attention.
Issue is that it is not obvious how to install them. You have to know that they exist in order to look where they are located and how to install them. Current model is far from easy comparing to computers that one can see in the store and that is competition in
Game specific yes, but common multimedia stuff that games expect to find on every computer must be provided by the operating system. That means business for Fluendo. Otherwise users will have second road bump after graphic drivers, which I bet will be absent in Ubuntu. ...
Basically, do not mix up games and the client, they are two different animals.
Now when you know what I was thinking, you can see that I got in mind a group of games, not game management software.
I'm afraid that without SUSE, or openSUSE Foundation, there is no partner for Valve. ...
openSUSE can fix that in a few years, that much needed Ubuntu to raise from newcomer on the Linux scene to the most used distro. ...
A few years will be too late. This is a one time opportunity. ...
I agree. I was talking about opportunity to grow and needed time. Ubuntu is growing for years and always with same motto, making use of computer as easy as possible, which is demanded not only by grand mothers, but also by anyone that has computer to do some other stuff, besides system administration.
It is not over the top, stats in the first answer tell that something has to be done, otherwise new kids will come and take over the place :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2012-04-29 at 09:26 +0200, C wrote:
I was thinking of trying to touch base with them. However, I'm not confident our devs would even allow the Steam client into the repos. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, April 29, 2012 02:26:30 AM C wrote:
SUSE as company can do that, but openSUSE as cloud like entity is not really interesting for Valve [1]. They need someone that can guarantee that game store for openSUSE users will be present in every release, visible and easy to use. Games will ask for certain level of stability in every release, easy access to proprietary graphic drivers and possible more proprietary components, that could mean more mandatory purchases of other components that make multimedia support for games. With current SUSE goals, to serve enterprise market, not individual consumers, this would require serious adjustment in openSUSE treatment, or creating completely new edition that will be supported for a longer time, media oriented, purchase based [2]. Will that benefit openSUSE? I think yes, specially that openSUSE doesn't need much adjustments, nor much time to create product that will support media stuff. Problem is public perception reflected on http://www.distrowatch.com , http://alexa.com [3] and probably other sites, that openSUSE is similar to Fedora. It is obvious that Ubuntu has some advantage, at least in size of user base, and public perception that they are friendly distro for beginners and all that want to use computer, but not to dive in computer internals. openSUSE can fix that in a few years, that much needed Ubuntu to raise from newcomer on the Linux scene to the most used distro. But, that will not happen with current goals that cut fine to linux oldtimers, do-it-yourself guys, but not to current trends where more users are coming that use computer to do stuff that is not computer configuration. [1] You can see it, but you can't touch it, nor sign even the weakest form of agreement unless you go to chase every droplet that makes cloud. [2] Purchase. It is not simple purchase installation CD. It could be purchase game with link to site that will provide installation ISO, offer CD/DVD to order with preinstalled game(s), [3] http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/opensuse.org# There is slight drop comparing to last year. Also, http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ubuntu.com . -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
A couple of points based on your comments Rajko. - Any points we make are pure speculation on what Valve may do if they release a Steam Client for Linux. The only way we can possibly know what's planned is if we contact Valve as a project (a single user standing alone will likely not get much traction in finding out what's happening and what can be done) - Your comments lead me to conclude that you've never used Steam on Windows, nor have you used Desura on Linux. I'll explain why with my comments in-line. On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 00:53, Rajko M. <rmatov101@charter.net> wrote:
A game client like Steam or Desura does not require a game store be present in every release. The principle of the client is that the user downloads the client from the distributor (that would be Valve for the Steam client not openSUSE repos) and installs (ie, it's not distributed via the openSUSE repos, it falls under the same process as Steam, TeamViewer etc where a user installs the client downloaded from an external source). Once installed they launch the client and the client manages all commercial or open source games for them - this is exactly what Desura is doing now (for both commercial and open source games), and the exact model used for Steam on Windows and OSX. Games are managed 100% by the client (following the current Desura model which is pretty much the same as the Steam for Windows model... and it makes sense for now that the Steam for Linux model will do the same). This means that any games installed are self contained. They provide statically linked libraries for the game - so that the game developer does not have to rely on locally installed libraries being in place and the right version. This works very well with Desura. Why not just stick with the fact that Desura sort of works on openSUSE? Well... because Desura sort of works (issues with trailers not working in the client), and Desura does not have the industry clout that Valve does. Valve is a multi-billion dollar/Euro company that top tier game developers are very interested in co-operating with.
Yes the stability is a factor.. sure, but that applies to the distro in general. Proprietary drivers... we already provide that via the Community repos... so what's the issue there? Theoretical mandatory purchases of other components would logically need to be managed by the client, not openSUSE since said components should be game specific... again I don't see the issue here. If a specific game needs some proprietary bits, those bits need to be included in the game purchase or available via the client, not managed by the distro... it's not the distro's business what a commercial application is doing.. that is no different to the situation as it is today. Basically, do not mix up games and the client, they are two different animals.
That's SUSE, not openSUSE and it doesn't make any sense that SUSE pursue this.
A few years will be too late. This is a one time opportunity. If... if Steam for Linux is actually released, and say that it runs well on Ubuntu because they are *already* in there assisting, but there is no RPM released, or the client fails to install on openSUSE because of something simple like a library naming convention difference (this specific issue has happened over and over with openSUSE), we will be left in the dust. We can ignore it... that's the "easy" way, and if this client is released as is hinted at, the uptake of Linux goes the way speculated, openSUSE risks being left as a "once-was-great, but they missed the boat". OK, that may be a bit over the top, but hopefully you see my point here.
This is not how Steam works.. not at all. Not even remotely close. There are no installation ISOs. Steam is not a webshop, it is a delivery and management platform - the closest analogy we have on openSUSE is... YaST. If your view of Steam is that it's a simple webshop where users can purchase a CD/DVD, you really need to go check it out because you are way off the mark here. C. -- openSUSE 12.1 x86_64, KDE 4.8.2 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, April 30, 2012 02:04:19 AM C wrote:
No, I didn't use them. I actually thought it is a important game engine making port to Linux worth of public attention.
Issue is that it is not obvious how to install them. You have to know that they exist in order to look where they are located and how to install them. Current model is far from easy comparing to computers that one can see in the store and that is competition in
Game specific yes, but common multimedia stuff that games expect to find on every computer must be provided by the operating system. That means business for Fluendo. Otherwise users will have second road bump after graphic drivers, which I bet will be absent in Ubuntu. ...
Basically, do not mix up games and the client, they are two different animals.
Now when you know what I was thinking, you can see that I got in mind a group of games, not game management software.
I'm afraid that without SUSE, or openSUSE Foundation, there is no partner for Valve. ...
openSUSE can fix that in a few years, that much needed Ubuntu to raise from newcomer on the Linux scene to the most used distro. ...
A few years will be too late. This is a one time opportunity. ...
I agree. I was talking about opportunity to grow and needed time. Ubuntu is growing for years and always with same motto, making use of computer as easy as possible, which is demanded not only by grand mothers, but also by anyone that has computer to do some other stuff, besides system administration.
It is not over the top, stats in the first answer tell that something has to be done, otherwise new kids will come and take over the place :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
C -
Rajko M. -
Roger Luedecke