On Friday July 30 2010 19:31:58 Pavol Rusnak wrote: On a 2nd note: Is there some place where those "proposals" are listed? To me it just looks like you (not you personally) dump yet another proposal in some refined state on that list but I honestly have no idea where a _current_ complete list can be found since that prolly would make it easier to select a preferred one or to harvest "best ideas" with which one agrees. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010, Pavol Rusnak wrote: I don't think this is a fair characterization of Fedora. In my experience Fedora has been rather solid -- at the edge of things in terms of versions and not shy of version updates even after a release, but it's not feeling more experimental than openSUSE, rather more progressive. Is this a benefit, a disadvantage, or neutral? Is this a benefit, a disadvantage, or neutral? Hard to disagree with any of these. :-) The first, second, and mostly fourth, specifically, really would be the same across all serious scenarios, wouldn't they? Gerald

On 30/07/2010, Pavol Rusnak <prusnak(a)opensuse.org> wrote: Claim that we can't compete with Ubuntu on user friendliness is plain absurd. oSuse has hardware detection on par with it and installing codecs & drivers isn't much more of a hassle. With a bit tuning, could be better. It's just that defaults and available easy-to-understand multilingual documentation are much worse on oSuse. If those problems were fixed, it'd be golden. Your "strategy" is brittle. Labeling oSuse as "distro for powerusers" brings automatical association with Gentoo and Arch, at least in my mind. I wouldn't want to try anything like that. Maybe, but does a person that can easily maintain his/her computer identify him/herself as a "poweruser"? If someone would come and tell me to install some awesome productive poweruser distro, I'd say thank you but no thanks. See above. 1. Definitely. This isn't year 2000 anymore. Oh wait, back then even Mandrake managed to pull that one out. It should be bare minimum requirement for every distro. 2. THIS. This is the main problem with oSuse! Not only defaults, but the overall look and feel of the whole KDE desktop with out-of-box FOSS drivers which can't composite and provide graphical glitches, has confusing theming and generally is not very welcoming. 3. This is already well covered. 4. We have Yast. 1. What's wrong with being user-friendly again? It's not like it stops the "powerusers" from doing what they want, on contrary, it's a stepping stone if done right. Having easily editable /etc/* configs simultaneously with nice UI with nice how-to's isn't exactly a miracle to perform. 2. yes 3. yes Certainly, the current motto(?) "Have a lot of fun" is terribly camp, but "Linux for productive powerusers" is easily even worse. Why not just keep it simple, easy to remember and look cool again? Consider these: "Power to the users" "Powering users" "System for you." "System to use." Cheesy for me but hey, look at Apple and their revolting abuse of term "magical", it works. Again, I can't stress enough how important it's to communicate with localization teams on how'd that sound in their language. Take it easy, Otso -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

Fredag den 30. juli 2010 19:31:58 skrev Pavol Rusnak: Lubos asked that strategies should answer the following three basic questions, so I'll try to do that for the proposal I put forward. And add them to the wiki page too. As this strategy deliberately tries to be quite close to the current reality of things, the strategy shouldn't require much extra work - if any. Instead it would hopefully mean a bit less work in some areas, as it tones down the efforts made on Joe Sixpack and exciting new bleeding edge technologies somewhat. By being fairly in sync with the goals for SLE (I presume), it should also mean that this strategy would benefit directly from the work done for SLE. * A clear direction and identity (but that is/should be true for any strategy) * There would suddenly be a bit of "cool-factor" to using and contributing to openSUSE * Differentiation from Fedora, Mandriva and Ubuntu. And I personally believe there's a big _craving_ out there, for a gratis, home-user distro that actually tries to be productive and professional. I see a lot of experienced, highly technical Linux people switching to OSX in the last couple of years - and I think a big part of the reason for that is that they don't find any other productive (desktop) Unix. We might lose some of our Joe Sixpack type users. I don't think we have too many of those to begin with, and since this strategy is pretty close to the status quo, I don't think that many existing users would be lost. We might lose some of the contributors whose motivation is spreading Linux to as many people as possible and competing with Ubuntu for marketshare. Maybe I should clarify that I'm personally one of these (e.g. I'm the author of opensuse-guide.org and a translator). And I've strived for openSUSE world domination for several years now, and all the while the task has only gotten more and more futile, because of how the distro/project has developed - while competition from other distros has increased in the same period. So I think these contributors would soon be lost anyway. And I don't think that very many of our big, core contributors care about Joe Sixpack, marketshare, world domination and such things anyway. We also might lose people who are all about exciting bleeding edge and unstable things. But I don't think we have that many of those, and the OBS should allow them to go wild and break their systems as much as they like. So losses in this area should be limited too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org