[opensuse-project] openSUSE Board Face-to-Face Meeting 2016 Minutes - Part 3/3
openSUSE Face to Face Board Meeting 2016 Minutes 18th-20th March Present: Richard Brown - Chair Michal Hrušecký Kostas Koudaras Tomas Chvatal Gertjan Lettink Bryan Lunduke - Extra special thanks goes to Bryan for attending via video conference at ridiculous hours in his local timezone after urgent personal matters kept him from attending the meeting in person. As this years Board Meeting Minutes are so long, they are split into 3 sections Meetings - Covering the meetings the Board had with various SUSE executives, managers, and engineers. General - Covering the general agenda items/day-to-day issues Strategy - Covering the 'big picture' issues the Board discussed This email is Part 3, containing 'big picture' strategy issues discussed Part 2 is available http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-03/msg00039.html Part 1 is available http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-project/2016-03/msg00038.html = Strategy = == Improve Visibility == Obviously, we want to improve the visibility of the openSUSE Project. We have great distributions, great tools, and great technologies, and we want them to be adopted by as many people and other projects as possible. We also want to be a natural choice for new contributors and new projects to come to openSUSE, work with us, and host their projects with us. === SUSE === SUSE is our closest, largest, partner. We have strong practical ties with them, but that does not mean we can forget about things such as regular clear communication and 'internal marketing' SUSE are working on a number of exciting new things, and it's important that internally openSUSE is seen as a natural home for SUSE's open source contributions. Working closely together also should enable SUSE's corporate marketing experts to help spread the good word about all the awesome stuff the openSUSE Project is doing AI: Bryan to investigate the possibility of Doug being invited to Weekly team meetings for SUSE Corporate Communications AI: Bryan to drive ensuring openSUSE is well integrated with SUSE's ongoing marketing. === Outreach === There's no point only targeting our existing contributors and partners like SUSE. Any open source project needs new people and with new people comes new ideas, new solutions, and new exciting projects for people to hack on A huge challenge for new contributors and projects is understanding what is available - Who is the openSUSE Project? - What services do we provide? - Where do I go to get involved? - How do I get started? These are questions which are _key_ to have simple, clear, easy to find answers to CALL FOR HELP: The Board wants to see getting started guides for - New Users - New Contributors - New Projects - to encourage other projects to come use openSUSE as their home to answer the above questions. These should be simple, clear, and relatively short. The produced guides should be easily usable on a wiki, the website, on flyers at conferences, short blog posts..we want to be able to spread them _everywhere_ The guides for new Contributors and new Projects are considered a Priority by the board - to use a football related quote "There is no point having fans, if you don't have your 11 on the pitch to play for them" AI: Board intends to create a skeleton of the above guides to help bootstrap this idea, and will drive this, but the Board is keen to see if anyone from the community dives in and gets to work on this immediately. === Other Projects === While openSUSE is keen to see other projects call the openSUSE Project it's home, we recognise that it's not viable for many, especially those larger ones with their own established communities In cases like this the Board wants to encourage strong relationships with such Projects, and seek out partnerships and other arrangements with such Projects for the benefit of all involved Examples include ownCloud and Kolab, where we believe openSUSE is in a perfect position to offer tools, community, and a solid environment for these projects to use as a default or recommended platform for their users AI: Bryan to arrange information exploratory discussions === Hardware vendors === Having hardware sponsors and partners is nice but is hard. Solid hardware support requires the hardware to be available and in the hands of the right contributors to make it happen Otherwise there is no way how to support special hardware without the things available for testing. However, we do have some relationships which are happening, and we want to highlight those who do stuff with us, such as - Soft Iron are shipping 64-bit ARM servers with openSUSE Tumbleweed as standard - Fujitsu offer openSUSE Tumbleweed to thier customers who want a Linux option on their Desktop & Server Hardware - Epson have some printers using openSUSE and YaST - Open Mainframe are investigating the possibility of building an openSUSE distribution for s390x == Reform and Remove Mess == Improving viability and reaching out to new areas is all well and good, but we need to make sure the project internals are tidy, clear, and easy to use Board discussed the state of many infrastructure and project policies and processes. We agreed a principle of, when something is imperfect, we Reform (aka improve) or Remove it. Services identified to be removed or reformed: - Software.o.o: 1) Media download needs to be easier, prefferable static page 2) package search adds too much mess to the installed systems. Invalid repos should not be distributed by 1-click installs 3) somehow redesign and reduce confusion to ensure that users do not end up with 80+ additional repos. - Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later - Blogs/Planet: 1) Only a handful of people use Planet, but it takes a lot of resources to keep it running. We want to shut it down, and encourage it's users move to their own blogs, which will then be aggregated on planet.opensuse.org 2) Improve planet.opensuse.org. Find a maintainer, use a clean upstream OSS soltion if possible AI: Kostas to contact the few Lizards bloggers to discuss their migration options - News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks 2) Replace with something lightweight AI: Richard talk with Douglas about this - i18n.o.o: Translations site is being migrated to l10n.o.o as we speak and i18n will be killed including the svn prior Leap 42.2 release. - Legal layout of Board/membership: The current layout of the Board Election Rules, Membership Rules, and such are sometimes confusing and missing some details The documents will be updated and restructured to be more clear This should set the framework for discussing any reforms of the Membership process once the Membership tidy-up is complete AI: board - get Infra team to provide list of services we have, soon to help with this endevour -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 14:46:34 CET schrieb Richard Brown:
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
Installing two extensions to prevent and get rid of the spam should be easily possible with our old mediawiki version. The trick is to use the 1.22 branch of the extensions instead of master (which is for the latest mediawiki version). That said - give me SSH access [1], and I can do it ;-) Updating to the latest mediawiki is a good idea nevertheless, but it might bring one or two surprises. Let's first fix the spam problem before we open that can of worms ;-)
- Blogs/Planet: 1) Only a handful of people use Planet, but it takes a lot of resources to keep it running. We want to shut it down, and encourage it's users move to their own blogs, which will then be aggregated on planet.opensuse.org
Are you confusing lizards with planet here?
- News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks 2) Replace with something lightweight AI: Richard talk with Douglas about this
For improved security, I can recommend Serendipity (aka s9y) which I'm using since years. I'm not sure about resource usage since my blog doesn't have the number of visitors we have on news.o.o ;-) but a) I've seen wordpress setups that need 30 seconds to deliver a "404 not found" page, so it can only be better and b) it's quite easy to setup a static cache with a bit of mod_rewrite trickery.
- get Infra team to provide list of services we have, soon to help with this endevour
That list will be interesting (and quite long - I'd guess the DNS admin is the only one who can list all services), so please make it public ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz [1] SSH access to enstage.o.o should be enough (assuming it's in sync with the production wikis), but I won't object if you also give me access to all production wikis ;-) -- * cboltz wonders if jjohansen already regrets calling me "a devs walking nightmare" <jjohansen> cboltz: no it still fits :P [from #apparmor] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 20 March 2016 at 15:33, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
Hello,
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 14:46:34 CET schrieb Richard Brown:
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
Installing two extensions to prevent and get rid of the spam should be easily possible with our old mediawiki version. The trick is to use the 1.22 branch of the extensions instead of master (which is for the latest mediawiki version).
That said - give me SSH access [1], and I can do it ;-)
Updating to the latest mediawiki is a good idea nevertheless, but it might bring one or two surprises. Let's first fix the spam problem before we open that can of worms ;-)
We can't give you ssh access while the machine is in Provo We are unlikely to setup a machine somewhere where you can SSH into it with an old version of everything So the can of worms is opening partially in order to help make it partially your can of worms in the future ;)
- Blogs/Planet: 1) Only a handful of people use Planet, but it takes a lot of resources to keep it running. We want to shut it down, and encourage it's users move to their own blogs, which will then be aggregated on planet.opensuse.org
Are you confusing lizards with planet here?
Yes I am - only a handful of people use LIZARDS..lots of people use PLANET.. my mistake. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 15:53:50 CET schrieb Richard Brown:
On 20 March 2016 at 15:33, Christian Boltz <opensuse@cboltz.de> wrote:
Am Sonntag, 20. März 2016, 14:46:34 CET schrieb Richard Brown:
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
Installing two extensions to prevent and get rid of the spam should be easily possible with our old mediawiki version. The trick is to use the 1.22 branch of the extensions instead of master (which is for the latest mediawiki version).
That said - give me SSH access [1], and I can do it ;-)
Updating to the latest mediawiki is a good idea nevertheless, but it might bring one or two surprises. Let's first fix the spam problem before we open that can of worms ;-)
We can't give you ssh access while the machine is in Provo
We are unlikely to setup a machine somewhere where you can SSH into it with an old version of everything
So the can of worms is opening partially in order to help make it partially your can of worms in the future ;)
OK, that explains why you proposed a new machine with the latest mediawiki version ;-) May I propose a another way to get the wiki fixed quickly? Is https://github.com/openSUSE/wiki is up to date? (I'm not sure about that, at least the attemps to install the Nuke extension never appeared there.) If it is, I can send a pull request with the extensions added (and assume we can get that deployed to stage and then production quickly). That way means I won't be able to test what I'm doing, but I think I know mediawiki good enough to get it right nevertheless ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- If something is red you should always worry. That's way it is red. [Thorsten Kukuk] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Good, well structured information flow, Richard. Thank you. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, thanks for sharing the Minutes. On 20.03.2016 14:46, Richard Brown wrote:
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
Can you please elaborate on what it is that needs fixing?
- Blogs/Planet: 1) Only a handful of people use Planet, but it takes a lot of resources to keep it running. We want to shut it down, and encourage it's users move to their own blogs, which will then be aggregated on planet.opensuse.org
I'm guessing you are talking about lizards that you want to shut down right? I think it would be an awesome project to attract web-developers if we could maintain an openSUSE Lizard theme for a number of the popular blog engines (wordpress, ghost, jekyll, tumblr). This would also help people on Lizards to migrate more easily.
- News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks
Can you elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
- Legal layout of Board/membership: The current layout of the Board Election Rules, Membership Rules, and such are sometimes confusing and missing some details The documents will be updated and restructured to be more clear This should set the framework for discussing any reforms of the Membership process once the Membership tidy-up is complete
I hope you are aware that this would need approval from all Members. Please do not fiddle with the rules that govern the Board on your own. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 21 March 2016 at 12:33, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hey,
thanks for sharing the Minutes.
On 20.03.2016 14:46, Richard Brown wrote:
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
Can you please elaborate on what it is that needs fixing?
- Blogs/Planet: 1) Only a handful of people use Planet, but it takes a lot of resources to keep it running. We want to shut it down, and encourage it's users move to their own blogs, which will then be aggregated on planet.opensuse.org
I'm guessing you are talking about lizards that you want to shut down right? I think it would be an awesome project to attract web-developers if we could maintain an openSUSE Lizard theme for a number of the popular blog engines (wordpress, ghost, jekyll, tumblr). This would also help people on Lizards to migrate more easily.
Yes, I'm talking about lizards, not planet And I like the idea, and think we should do it, but openSUSE doesn't need to run those blogging platforms
- News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks
Can you elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
Our infrastructure admins
- Legal layout of Board/membership: The current layout of the Board Election Rules, Membership Rules, and such are sometimes confusing and missing some details The documents will be updated and restructured to be more clear This should set the framework for discussing any reforms of the Membership process once the Membership tidy-up is complete
I hope you are aware that this would need approval from all Members. Please do not fiddle with the rules that govern the Board on your own.
The intent of what we describe above is primarily a restructuring about which document which rules live in, because the current ruleset is somewhat fragmented. The intend is to have little or no practical changes. Any changes to the Election Rules will require a vote by the board with a 2/3s majority including the Chair, or a Members vote with a 2/3s majority, as stated in our rules https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Board_election_rules#Amendment: -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 21.03.2016 14:48, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 12:33, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 20.03.2016 14:46, Richard Brown wrote:
- News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks
Can you elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
Our infrastructure admins
I understood from your other mails that this is where it comes from. Can you also elaborate on the details please? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 21 March 2016 at 15:07, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hey,
On 21.03.2016 14:48, Richard Brown wrote:
On 21 March 2016 at 12:33, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
On 20.03.2016 14:46, Richard Brown wrote:
- News.o.o: 1) Wordpress consumes too many resources and poses too many security risks
Can you elaborate on how you came to this conclusion?
Our infrastructure admins
I understood from your other mails that this is where it comes from. Can you also elaborate on the details please?
Our infrastructure team has lots of stuff to do, lots of our services to look after, lots of databases to power them That is lots of instances of apache, php, wordpress, and $insert_db_name_here to patch, manage, secure, fix, tidy up, etc This is further complicated when stuff like our wordpress instances include custom themes and bolted together hacks and plugins that were desperately important to someone somewhen, but now many years later no one has any idea who wanted it or why, but the presence of those themes and plugins make the maintenance and upgrade of those systems more painful, if not block them outright To quote one of our discussions this weekend, while keeping the service in question strictly anonymous "the only reason we haven't been hacked yet is probably because it's so old that any exploits would expect a more recent version" This is not a sustainable situation. Our infrastructure team have lobbied, for several years now, to encourage the openSUSE Project to reduce it's footprint where possible, remove services that are not being used, and lean towards technologies which are lightweight and more easy to secure and maintain, so they can focus their time and efforts where they're needed The Board is doing what it can to help with that, hence the efforts to retire lizards and replace news.opensuse.org with something easier for us Regards, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 21.03.2016 15:23, Richard Brown wrote:
The Board is doing what it can to help with that, hence the efforts to retire lizards and replace news.opensuse.org with something easier for us
Thanks for the detailed explanation :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 03/21/2016 12:16 AM, Richard Brown wrote:
openSUSE Face to Face Board Meeting 2016 Minutes 18th-20th March
- Wiki: 1) In order to fix the wiki quickly ,the board approved the idea of deploying the latest version of mediawiki on a new server without branding 2) branding can always be redone later
I am volenteering to do a "Light" rebranding of the wiki once its up, basically just replacing the colors in the css files with ones that matchs the branding guidelines and the landing page. I already have some work on this done and will aim to do similar across other openSUSE sites such as software.oo and eventually the forums although that will be harder for various reasons. Cheers Simon
participants (5)
-
Christian Boltz
-
Henne Vogelsang
-
PatrickD Garvey
-
Richard Brown
-
Simon Lees