On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 12:03 +0100, Richard Hughes wrote:

On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 20:02 +0200, Denis Washington wrote:

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We shouldn't resignate just because nothing came out of the previous attempts. Also, the LSB Package API is designed to require as little adjustments as possible to installers - it's just to calls and a single file, after all.

Uses a DBUS service: check Uses pluggable backends: check Use PolicyKit: check Use an XML parser: check System activation: check Define own linked list implementation: check

I don't know where you a heading. The D-Bus service, pluggable backends, the XML parser, and system activation are all things that installers don't have to deal with. They just use the few functions from liblsb_package.

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As already mentioned before in this thread, the focus of PackageKit and the LSB Package API are quite different, so there is no big reason for them to not exist side-by-side.

Err, http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/LSB_Package_API suggests otherwise.

You've got calls to PolicyKit, a system activated daemon, pluggable backends - you might as well call the project LSBPackageKit. You don't appear to have any defined scope for the project and it seems to be just be technology-bingo at the moment.

Just because it does use the same technologies, that doesn't mean the APIs' scope is the same. You should know enough about your project to realize that the LSB Package API is focused on entirely different needs (providing an interface for third-party app installers) than PackageKit (provide an API for the packaging system, based on distro repositories).

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I don't think this is a corner case at all. For one thing, propietary applications might just don't play a role _because_ there is no really good distribution method for them - the typical chicken-and-egg problem. (I'm not saying this is the only reason, but an important one.) We're just not giving them an easy method of cross-distro integration. I think providing this is important.

Have you talked to customers? I have. Lots of them. Customers don't want DBUS services or PolicyKit, they want one of two things:

1. A tested (supported) binary package for something like RHEL and SLED. 2. An installer that uses something like /bin/sh for the other distros.

Again, ISVs don't have to deal with D-BUS etc. Those are _implementation details_. They can just use a simple C API which could also be easily wrapped into simple command-line tools.

If you want them to use a library to install stuff, you better make it static (else they have to depend on really new versions of distros) and also make it very lightweight, libc type stuff. Most of this closed source stuff has to install on distros 5 years old, and continue to work on distros 2 years in the future.

The LSB Package API would only be in newer versions of the LSB, so support of legacy distros is not that high on the list. (On any older distro, no one could rely on the API even being there.)

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Second, this way of distribution will help open-source projects as well. It would make it really easy for them to distribute bleeding-edge versions of there apps that integrate well into the packaging system without having to package for each and every package manager.

Talk to the distro maintainers. They really don't want random projects replacing supported packages. Packages are not normally just the upstream tarball with a spec file - normally the packager includes spec files to make the package compile, or integrate well with the distro. Then there's the world of pain that comes from security errata.

No packages are going to be replaced. LSB applications are required to install to /opt, so nothing is overridden. Even the package naming won't clash (it's "lsb-<provider>-<package name>" in the implemented RPM and DPKG backends).

I really think you should talk to distro maintainers as well as closed source vendors before coming up with any more API.

A number of ISVs have already been talked to; see the comments from Jeff Licquia. Regards, Denis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org