On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 00:01 +0000, Benji Weber wrote:

Could you clarify the ramifications of the code of conduct being adopted. What does "adopted" mean here as no-one has signed this document, presumably this is the outcome of a Board discussion to which we are not privy.

Sure, no problem. By "adopted" we mean that there is rough consensus that we need to have a few rules of basic politeness, so the board decided to, well, "adopt" those rules :)

Is it just a set of advice that is on the wiki like the mailing list netiquete?

More or less, but this is for the whole openSUSE project. We also have a way for people to report violations, and a body of people who can take appropriate action: you can mail the board and the board will decide what to do. This whole "appropriate action" is intentionally left undefined, of course, since these things need a case-by-case examination :) For someone who abuses people on mailing lists it may be enough to moderate them; for others we may need to do different things. By the way, I hate the term "violations of the code"... it sounds as if you were breaking an oath or the law or something. Think of it as "people being un-nice to each other".

Is abiding by it a condition of membership?

If you mean "membership" in the terms of Francis's announcement of "openSUSE Membership", then yes. We obviously can't grant someone the mark of a distinguished member of the project if that person isn't polite to the community at large :)

Is abiding by it a condition of use of the openSUSE services?

It depends, of course... you could be happy user of zypper and the online update tools, even if you have no manners, because those tools don't require inter-personal communication. But for IRC and mailing lists, we expect standard politeness, nothing more. Think of those places as being in the street or a nice cafe where you may start conversations with strangers or people you already know. If you start punching people in the face, someone will call a policeman will drag you away :)

Are there penalties for not abiding by it? Is it enforced?

The code of conduct will be enforced on a case-by-case basis when people report offenders [that's another word I hate...]. As mentioned above, each medium where there's an offence really requires its own kind of penalty. Finally: don't be afraid! We are not "out to get people". We just want to turn a rowdy wild-west saloon into a nice cafe with internet connection :) Federico --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 04 February 2008 06:08:25 pm Federico Mena Quintero wrote:

On Mon, 2008-02-04 at 17:50 -0600, Federico Mena Quintero wrote:

...

http://en.opensuse.org/Code_of_Conduct

And of course I forgot to mention: I'll be at the #opensuse-project meeting on irc.freenode.net this Wednesday, to answer any questions you may have about the Code of Conduct :)

Cheers,

Federico

I can't be there, so this is the way to say thank you for Bibliography section on the wiki. It helps me to understand Board concerns. -- Regards, Rajko. See http://en.opensuse.org/Portal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger a écrit :

reaction. Could we discuss the code of conduct in the openSUSE IRC meeting on wednesday, please?

don't forget many people don't like IRC, are not acostumed to it or can't join on time and hour. The proposal was made here and the discussion should be here

feeling (but with good comments from others afterwards). We wanted to put this on a proper base, so that it's clear what is tolerated and what not,

and this seems ok for me jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Binner a écrit :

. Summarizing the discussion as unanimous support for a Code of Conduct is a bit strange...

As I understand it many people (including me) found this not really usefull, but mostly because obvious. so adopting it can't hurt...

Btw, it was only some remark by some other board member on IRC afterwards

I *hate* IRC. do we have IRC archives?? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Carlos Gonçalves a écrit :

Em Terça, 5 de Fevereiro de 2008, o jdd escreveu:

...

Stephan Binner a écrit :

...

Btw, it was only some remark by some other board member on IRC afterwards I *hate* IRC. do we have IRC archives??

http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Archive

yes, I know, but there are "edited" transcript (and may be it's better :-) - so not really a reference and my position about IRC is strictly personal, but I don't think i'm alone in this, so discussing on mailing list is better jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Francis Giannaros a écrit :

IRC is handy because we can [nearly all] be in the same place to discuss an issue and [hopefully] have it resolved in a much shorter time.

necessary for day to day work, but completely unusable if any thinking is necessary before an answer as it's often the case in such case. if the answer don't follow immediately, it's mixed by others answers in the thread. even a slow typing is a problem. when I type fast I make even more typos than I already do here :-(( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

I see a lot of reactions on Federico's emails that we as board haven't expected and which show that we all need some further discussion on the topic and it's not as clear as we had hoped. Let's discuss tomorrow in the IRC meeting on how to continue with the Code of Conduct. Henne et all - this was not a critique on your great job! Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Hi, On Tuesday, February 05, 2008 at 08:23:03, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Stephan Binner writes:

...

On Tuesday 05 February 2008 00:50:27 Federico Mena Quintero wrote:

...

Thanks to everyone who showed support for the proposed Code of Conduct!

Did you read any of the replies in the thread you started!?

I'm alienated how you dumped it onto this list, did not participate in the discussion at all and now declare this as adopted by the project. :-(

Stephan, looking again at the thread, I'm a bit surprised by your reaction. Could we discuss the code of conduct in the openSUSE IRC meeting on wednesday, please?

I would like to do that too. No offense, but you are steping into territory you had no business in before and you did not even bother to talk to the people involved. This feels a bit weird and is not very polite. I for instance feel a bit skipped by all this because this went from "general rules" on the wiki to "rules to abide" on IRC and mailinglists "enforced" by the board. In the past i, among many others, was responsible for this for 2 of the 4 communication channels you name. You just told me on a public mailinglist im not anymore[1]. I would like to take this opportunity and remind you, as outer-board-opposition 8), what your assignments are. Given to you by the openSUSE project: _help_ resolve conflicts. facilitate decision making processes _where needed_. provide guidance and support _existing governance structures_. Henne [1] For me its easy. Aj just needs to come over and tell me what to do. For others its not. For instance you dont have the "authority" to say anything about the (#suse/#opensuse) IRC channel. Pete and the mod's there have. -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Tuesday, February 05, 2008 at 11:20:49, Federico Mena Quintero wrote:

On Tue, 2008-02-05 at 12:40 +0100, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

I would like to do that too. No offense, but you are steping into territory you had no business in before and you did not even bother to talk to the people involved. This feels a bit weird and is not very polite.

Yes, sorry, this was a huge oversight on my part. I completely forgot about the moderators. I didn't mean to ignore your work! Rest assured that we'll clarify this.

Your mail makes something very clear: the moderators need to be able to do their work, and the board should only help resolve conflicts. I completely agree with that; sorry again for making it seem like it's a board-or-nothing kind of thing! We can definitely help as a last resort when there is a lot of appealing to the moderators and the conflict cannot be resolved locally.

Perhaps we can talk tomorrow during the project meeting?

Yes sure. Lets do that :) I know that you guys are not trying to step on anyones toes on purpose. All of you are "just do it [tm]" guys and i like that. I rather have it this way then the other way around... In fact im happy that this topic is comming up. We need to talk a bit about the board in general i think :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org