27 Feb
2012
27 Feb
'12
1:56 a.m.
I have tried to follow this thread started by Robert (for what reason is
still beyond me, but nevertheless....).
It had reached the stage of sheer boredom a while back in attempting to
read posts in that "Membership" thread.
Just before I started typing this message there were 84 posts concerning
this "Membership" nonsense - and there is nothing else to call it but
"nonsense".
We are using Linux because we do not want to have other, monopolistic,
anti freedom-to-choose-our-operating-systems entities shoving down our
throats what systems we must use.
We belong to a group of free spirits who refuse to be dictated to by
monopolies and are users of one of many LINUX based systems. And
openSUSE is just *ONE* of such systems.
There is nothing extraordinary about openSUSE - at least not anymore. It
was when I first started to use it back in the 1990's but no more.
Nostalgia and the belief in the future of openSUSE is what keeps, at
least some of us, continuing to use openSUSE.
But forget about the nostalgia.
Just don't destroy the BELIEF.
If you want to keep flogging this dead horse of an idea of "Membership"
then it should focus of membership of a *LINUX* fraternity and not this
silly notion of being a "member" of openSUSE - which is now owned by
Attachmate, previously owned by Novell, previously owned by the creators
of S.u.S.E..
Who is going to own openSUSE once Attachmate is offered more money to
own openSUSE?
Why did Attachmate decide to retain the name "openSUSE"?
What would be the case if the new owners decided to call it "Attachmate
Linux" (or similar)?
We are members of a group of people who use and love and respect and
contribute to in one way or another to *LINUX* and *FOSS*.
I'll stop here because I know that you have the intelligence to realise
in which direction any deliberations, policy, and effort should directed.
BC
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27 Feb
27 Feb
8:54 a.m.
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This
is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your
personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
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9:04 a.m.
On maandag 27 februari 2012 14:54:42 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
+1 (my only contribution to this non-issue)
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I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This
is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your
personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne 
9:45 a.m.
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be civil
to oneanother?
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I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This
is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not
your personal soap-box. Get lost.
10:05 a.m.
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:45, Per Jessen wrote:
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
I was civil. I wasn't friendly. And that's because to Basil I don't want
to be friendly anymore.
This is our projects list and I'm tired of people who poison it. I have
decided I will not tolerate this anymore and speak up against it.
Henne
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On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be civil
to oneanother? I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This
is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not
your personal soap-box. Get lost.
10:42 a.m.
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:45, Per Jessen wrote:
Telling someone to "get lost" is not civil, certainly not in my book.
(http://www.dict.cc/?s=get%20lost)
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
I was civil. On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be
civil to oneanother? I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone?
This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project,
not your personal soap-box. Get lost. This is our projects list and I'm tired of people
who poison it. I
have decided I will not tolerate this anymore and speak up against it.
By all means do so, but please be civil. This is everyones project
list. You as a board member ought to show some leadership and behave
like we'd like others to.
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9:48 a.m.
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
HERESY!
That's one of the potential reasons why contributors turn their backs
to openSUSE! The guy is right, his only crime is not to be a part of
the closed circle of people who are trying to do everything to control
openSUSE and do not give any change at 'new blood'!
Then you wonder why people pack axes, sharp sticks, knifes, stones etc
etc etc against the project... Your email is a clear explanation for
it!
You should to Roman Catholicism and learn how to love others! HERETIC!
NM
PS: yeah! I can do religion too!
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is
the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your
personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
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9:57 a.m.
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need
to take me down!
I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
NM
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
--
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// I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of
bread in the middle...
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I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is
the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your
personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
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- Mike Tyson
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9:59 a.m.
On Monday, February 27, 2012 15:57:42 Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see
how much you need
to take me down!
I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
This is not a place for fighting, Nelson.
Let's close this thread,
Andreas
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10:13 a.m.
Strange that on factory lists no action was taken against Mr. Anderson
for cheap personal assaults.
This only proofs that there are 1st class citizens and 2nd class citizens.
Good job. For the rest I agree.
NM
2012/2/27 Andreas Jaeger <aj(a)suse.com>om>:
On Monday, February 27, 2012 15:57:42 Nelson Marques
wrote:
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// I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of
bread in the middle...
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And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and
see how much you need
to take me down!
I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
This is not a place for fighting, Nelson.
Let's close this thread,
Andreas
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11:11 a.m.
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:59, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
This is not a place for fighting
You are wrong. This is a place worth fighting for!
The whole project is paralyzed because you can't bring forward any idea
anymore without getting into a huge, mostly meaningless, thread. One
where people don't offer any collaboration on the matter at hand. This
has got to stop.
I urge each and every one of you to think hard before hitting the send
button on a mail to @opensuse.org for the next couple of weeks.
Think hard if what you have written is a contribution to solving the
problem or not. Think hard if you offer collaboration to your peers or
not. Think hard if you create an environment where people feel save to
bring forward their ideas or not.
Please!
Henne
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3:35 p.m.
On 02/27/2012 05:11 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:59, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We're both right ;) it seems you misunderstood what I said.
Yes, it's worth fighting for a proper communication instead of bike
shedding and meaningless discussions,
Andreas
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This is not a place for fighting
You are wrong. This is a place worth fighting for!
10:37 a.m.
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see
how much you need
to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for
you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since
quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people
abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
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10:56 a.m.
Bring it on cowboy :)
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
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bread in the middle...
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And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and
see how much you need
to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you
to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite
some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it
for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
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10:56 a.m.
On 2012-02-27 16:37:46 (+0100), Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
>And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and
see how much you need
>to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't
you? I'm just waiting
for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work
together. Since
quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of
people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do
something about it.
Count me in.
We've already had way too much vandalizing by a very, very few,
which caused everyone else to be unable to communicate and
exchange about our project.
Goodbye Nelson. Have a lot of fun, but elsewhere.
--
-o) Pascal Bleser
/\\ http://opensuse.org -- we haz green
_\_v http://fosdem.org -- we haz conf
11 a.m.
> On
2/27/2012 at 08:37 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and
see how much you need
to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for
you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since
quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people
abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
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11:03 a.m.
I will inform you by letter to comply with EU Directive 108 regarding
all personal data you have ;)
Goodbye :)
2012/2/27 Alan Clark <aclark(a)suse.com>om>:
Henne does not stand alone in this. Nelson you've said goodbye - leave.
AlanClark
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> On
2/27/2012 at 08:37 AM, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and
see how much you need
to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for
you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since
quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people
abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
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11 a.m.
On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 14:57 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see
how much you need
to take me down!
I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
NM
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang <hvogel(a)opensuse.org>rg>:
Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by
acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and
effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and
also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously,
acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on
*everyone's* part.
You are getting a name for yourself as being nothing more than a troll,
an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You
may not agree with how the project works, but instead of being
condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody
expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if
you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both
evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to
do it differently.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane manner, please just keep your
warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have
managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too
long.
Regards,
Andy
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Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
--
Nelson Marques
// I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of
bread in the middle... I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is
the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your
personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
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11:06 a.m.
Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by
acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and
effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and
also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously,
acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on
*everyone's* part.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst
other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect.
So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who started the war, but
I'll gladly finish it.
You are getting a name for yourself as being nothing
more than a troll,
an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You
Better than a NAZI :)
may not agree with how the project works, but instead
of being
condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody
expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if
you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both
evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to
do it differently.
Sure... I should eat it all up and shut up and play nice :) I haven't
played my last card yet.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane manner,
please just keep your
warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have
managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too
long.
All the best to you, I have no beef with you.
Regards,
Andy
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bread in the middle...
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11:31 a.m.
On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 16:06 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
You see, you unfortunately don't grasp the issue here. Speaking as a
contributor to openSUSE and *NOT* as a board member, you most certainly
have beef with me as you have beef with the project.
More importantly, I have serious issues now with your behaviour towards
the openSUSE project. If nothing else you're attitude on this thread
alone shows how poisonous and twisted you are. I am only continuing this
thread to show to others that it is not just the negative, trolling,
poisonous people that can be noisy but also those that bring some
objectiveness to the table.
You've said you are leaving the project mailing list, so please do. Oh
and being childish and quoting EU directives is completely unnecessary.
You may of course request any information we hold on you be deleted, but
using it in a threatening and belligerent manner is disgusting and
immature. If you are unhappy with being treated like a child throwing a
tantrum, you may wish to assess your actions first.
Andy
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Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by
acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and
effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and
also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously,
acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on
*everyone's* part.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst
other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect.
So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who started the war, but
I'll gladly finish it.
You are getting a name for yourself as being
nothing more than a troll,
an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You
Better than a NAZI :)
may not agree with how the project works, but
instead of being
condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody
expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if
you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both
evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to
do it differently.
Sure... I should eat it all up and shut up and play nice :) I haven't
played my last card yet.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane
manner, please just keep your
warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have
managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too
long.
All the best to you, I have no beef with you.
11:38 a.m.
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 17:06, Nelson Marques wrote:
Not respecting you is wrong. The openSUSE project values respect for
others and their work. Not defending you is wrong. The openSUSE project
stands for its guiding principles.
However, if someone did wrong to you, you are not allowed to do others
wrong because of it.
You are
starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by
acting in such a playground manner.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst
other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect. So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who
started the war, but
I'll gladly finish it.
There appears to be no reason why you would be here except doing us
harm. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not willing anymore
to give people a platform to harm the openSUSE project on our very own
mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others to further
the openSUSE project or you better leave.
So, please make true on your announcement and leave.
Henne
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11:40 a.m.
Le 27/02/2012 17:38, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
anymore to give people a platform to harm the openSUSE
project on our
very own mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others
to further the openSUSE project or you better leave.
sad, but true
jdd
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12:15 p.m.
On 27.02.2012 17:40, jdd wrote:
Le 27/02/2012 17:38, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
indeed :/
Anyway, could we come back to topic? I don't know how you think about
the "membership question" but I'd say it's a good job for the board ;-)
Why not let them and Robert discuss about it, come up with first plan of
a solution and discuss it _seriously_ on the list?
Wouldn't that be the best solution for us all?
And guys, please *please* stop this stupid "I'll leave but before I'll
insult as many as possible"-discussion that is going on here.
Nelson, I don't know what happened to you, and maybe you give a fsck on
what I'm writing, but wouldn't it be much more sane to ignore the bait
and don't reply to any insulting posts. I know, if someone provokes me
it's not easy to me to let it go without any reaction, but in the end
you're saving yourself a big amount of unnecessary fighting.
So, Nelson, I really appreciate your contributions and hope you'll find
a way to leave the project peacefully. Good luck to you!
Have a lot of fun...
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Kim Leyendecker, openSUSE Wiki Team
GPG Key: 664265369547B825 | leyendecker(a)opensuse.org
http://www.opensuse.org - Linux for open minds
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anymore to give people a platform to harm the
openSUSE project on our
very own mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others
to further the openSUSE project or you better leave.
sad, but true
jdd
12:06 p.m.
Le 27/02/2012 18:15, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
Anyway, could we come back to topic? I don't know
how you think about
the "membership question" but I'd say it's a good job for the board ;-)
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Membership_lapse_summary
jdd
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28 Feb
28 Feb
5:27 a.m.
On 28/02/12 00:54, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
Thank you Henne.
A true gentleman as always.
BC
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I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This
is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not
your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
3249
days inactive
3250
days old
24 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Alan Clark -
Andreas Jaeger -
Andrew Wafaa -
Basil Chupin -
Freek de Kruijf -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Kim Leyendecker -
Nelson Marques -
Pascal Bleser -
Per Jessen