I have tried to follow this thread started by Robert (for what reason is still beyond me, but nevertheless....).
It had reached the stage of sheer boredom a while back in attempting to read posts in that "Membership" thread.
Just before I started typing this message there were 84 posts concerning this "Membership" nonsense - and there is nothing else to call it but "nonsense".
We are using Linux because we do not want to have other, monopolistic, anti freedom-to-choose-our-operating-systems entities shoving down our throats what systems we must use.
We belong to a group of free spirits who refuse to be dictated to by monopolies and are users of one of many LINUX based systems. And openSUSE is just *ONE* of such systems.
There is nothing extraordinary about openSUSE - at least not anymore. It was when I first started to use it back in the 1990's but no more.
Nostalgia and the belief in the future of openSUSE is what keeps, at least some of us, continuing to use openSUSE.
But forget about the nostalgia.
Just don't destroy the BELIEF.
If you want to keep flogging this dead horse of an idea of "Membership" then it should focus of membership of a *LINUX* fraternity and not this silly notion of being a "member" of openSUSE - which is now owned by Attachmate, previously owned by Novell, previously owned by the creators of S.u.S.E..
Who is going to own openSUSE once Attachmate is offered more money to own openSUSE?
Why did Attachmate decide to retain the name "openSUSE"?
What would be the case if the new owners decided to call it "Attachmate Linux" (or similar)?
We are members of a group of people who use and love and respect and contribute to in one way or another to *LINUX* and *FOSS*.
I'll stop here because I know that you have the intelligence to realise in which direction any deliberations, policy, and effort should directed.
BC
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
On maandag 27 februari 2012 14:54:42 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
+1 (my only contribution to this non-issue)
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be civil to oneanother?
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:45, Per Jessen wrote:
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be civil to oneanother?
I was civil. I wasn't friendly. And that's because to Basil I don't want to be friendly anymore.
This is our projects list and I'm tired of people who poison it. I have decided I will not tolerate this anymore and speak up against it.
Henne
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:45, Per Jessen wrote:
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
The last sentence was uncalled for. Why is it so difficult to be civil to oneanother?
I was civil.
Telling someone to "get lost" is not civil, certainly not in my book. (http://www.dict.cc/?s=get%20lost)
This is our projects list and I'm tired of people who poison it. I have decided I will not tolerate this anymore and speak up against it.
By all means do so, but please be civil. This is everyones project list. You as a board member ought to show some leadership and behave like we'd like others to.
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
HERESY!
That's one of the potential reasons why contributors turn their backs to openSUSE! The guy is right, his only crime is not to be a part of the closed circle of people who are trying to do everything to control openSUSE and do not give any change at 'new blood'!
Then you wonder why people pack axes, sharp sticks, knifes, stones etc etc etc against the project... Your email is a clear explanation for it!
You should to Roman Catholicism and learn how to love others! HERETIC!
NM
PS: yeah! I can do religion too!
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down! I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
NM
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, February 27, 2012 15:57:42 Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down! I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
This is not a place for fighting, Nelson.
Let's close this thread, Andreas
Strange that on factory lists no action was taken against Mr. Anderson for cheap personal assaults.
This only proofs that there are 1st class citizens and 2nd class citizens.
Good job. For the rest I agree.
NM
2012/2/27 Andreas Jaeger aj@suse.com:
On Monday, February 27, 2012 15:57:42 Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down! I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
This is not a place for fighting, Nelson.
Let's close this thread, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:59, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
This is not a place for fighting
You are wrong. This is a place worth fighting for!
The whole project is paralyzed because you can't bring forward any idea anymore without getting into a huge, mostly meaningless, thread. One where people don't offer any collaboration on the matter at hand. This has got to stop.
I urge each and every one of you to think hard before hitting the send button on a mail to @opensuse.org for the next couple of weeks.
Think hard if what you have written is a contribution to solving the problem or not. Think hard if you offer collaboration to your peers or not. Think hard if you create an environment where people feel save to bring forward their ideas or not.
Please!
Henne
On 02/27/2012 05:11 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:59, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
This is not a place for fighting
You are wrong. This is a place worth fighting for!
We're both right ;) it seems you misunderstood what I said.
Yes, it's worth fighting for a proper communication instead of bike shedding and meaningless discussions,
Andreas
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
Bring it on cowboy :)
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2012-02-27 16:37:46 (+0100), Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org wrote:
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Count me in. We've already had way too much vandalizing by a very, very few, which caused everyone else to be unable to communicate and exchange about our project.
Goodbye Nelson. Have a lot of fun, but elsewhere.
On 2/27/2012 at 08:37 AM, Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
Henne does not stand alone in this. Nelson you've said goodbye - leave.
AlanClark
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit.
- Mike Tyson
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
I will inform you by letter to comply with EU Directive 108 regarding all personal data you have ;)
Goodbye :)
2012/2/27 Alan Clark aclark@suse.com:
On 2/27/2012 at 08:37 AM, Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 15:57, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down!
You just declared your grand departing haven't you? I'm just waiting for you to make good on that announcement :)
This is our mailing list where we are trying to work together. Since quite some time it's not possible to do that anymore because of people abusing it for their own purposes.
I am not going to take this anymore and I will do something about it.
Henne
Henne does not stand alone in this. Nelson you've said goodbye - leave.
AlanClark
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 14:57 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
And one more thing Henne, throw me your best and see how much you need to take me down! I can promiss you a valiant stand ;)
NM
2012/2/27 Henne Vogelsang hvogel@opensuse.org:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
-- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-- Nelson Marques // I've stopped trying to understand sandwiches with a third piece of bread in the middle...
Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously, acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on *everyone's* part.
You are getting a name for yourself as being nothing more than a troll, an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You may not agree with how the project works, but instead of being condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to do it differently.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane manner, please just keep your warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too long.
Regards,
Andy
Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously, acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on *everyone's* part.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect. So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who started the war, but I'll gladly finish it.
You are getting a name for yourself as being nothing more than a troll, an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You
Better than a NAZI :)
may not agree with how the project works, but instead of being condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to do it differently.
Sure... I should eat it all up and shut up and play nice :) I haven't played my last card yet.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane manner, please just keep your warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too long.
All the best to you, I have no beef with you.
Regards,
Andy
-- Andrew Wafaa IRC: FunkyPenguin GPG: 0x3A36312F
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2012-02-27 at 16:06 +0000, Nelson Marques wrote:
Nelson,
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by acting in such a playground manner. I genuinely admire the work and effort you have put in with getting Banshee cleaned up and updated, and also the effort you put in for both Unity and Cinnamon; but seriously, acting in this manner is absolutely pointless and counter productive on *everyone's* part.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect. So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who started the war, but I'll gladly finish it.
You are getting a name for yourself as being nothing more than a troll, an extremist of the worst kind. Is that how you wish to be known? You
Better than a NAZI :)
may not agree with how the project works, but instead of being condescending and belligerent about it try being constructive. Nobody expects to please 100% of the community, it's an impossible task, but if you genuinely have objections raise them and when you do provide both evidence as to why you fell it doesn't work and how you would propose to do it differently.
Sure... I should eat it all up and shut up and play nice :) I haven't played my last card yet.
If you don't want to proceed in a sane manner, please just keep your warmongering to yourself as it has no input into the project. You have managed to derail far too many threads on various mailing lists for too long.
All the best to you, I have no beef with you.
You see, you unfortunately don't grasp the issue here. Speaking as a contributor to openSUSE and *NOT* as a board member, you most certainly have beef with me as you have beef with the project.
More importantly, I have serious issues now with your behaviour towards the openSUSE project. If nothing else you're attitude on this thread alone shows how poisonous and twisted you are. I am only continuing this thread to show to others that it is not just the negative, trolling, poisonous people that can be noisy but also those that bring some objectiveness to the table.
You've said you are leaving the project mailing list, so please do. Oh and being childish and quoting EU directives is completely unnecessary. You may of course request any information we hold on you be deleted, but using it in a threatening and belligerent manner is disgusting and immature. If you are unhappy with being treated like a child throwing a tantrum, you may wish to assess your actions first.
Andy
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 17:06, Nelson Marques wrote:
You are starting to loose any respect I and many others had for you by acting in such a playground manner.
I don't recall any paladins in my defense when I was called amongst other things a NAZI supporter, and other lack of respect.
Not respecting you is wrong. The openSUSE project values respect for others and their work. Not defending you is wrong. The openSUSE project stands for its guiding principles.
However, if someone did wrong to you, you are not allowed to do others wrong because of it.
So please push the eject button. It wasn't me who started the war, but I'll gladly finish it.
There appears to be no reason why you would be here except doing us harm. And that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not willing anymore to give people a platform to harm the openSUSE project on our very own mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others to further the openSUSE project or you better leave.
So, please make true on your announcement and leave.
Henne
Le 27/02/2012 17:38, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
anymore to give people a platform to harm the openSUSE project on our very own mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others to further the openSUSE project or you better leave.
sad, but true
jdd
On 27.02.2012 17:40, jdd wrote:
Le 27/02/2012 17:38, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :
anymore to give people a platform to harm the openSUSE project on our very own mailing lists. Either you are here to collaborate with others to further the openSUSE project or you better leave.
sad, but true
jdd
indeed :/
Anyway, could we come back to topic? I don't know how you think about the "membership question" but I'd say it's a good job for the board ;-)
Why not let them and Robert discuss about it, come up with first plan of a solution and discuss it _seriously_ on the list?
Wouldn't that be the best solution for us all?
And guys, please *please* stop this stupid "I'll leave but before I'll insult as many as possible"-discussion that is going on here. Nelson, I don't know what happened to you, and maybe you give a fsck on what I'm writing, but wouldn't it be much more sane to ignore the bait and don't reply to any insulting posts. I know, if someone provokes me it's not easy to me to let it go without any reaction, but in the end you're saving yourself a big amount of unnecessary fighting.
So, Nelson, I really appreciate your contributions and hope you'll find a way to leave the project peacefully. Good luck to you!
Have a lot of fun...
Le 27/02/2012 18:15, Kim Leyendecker a écrit :
Anyway, could we come back to topic? I don't know how you think about the "membership question" but I'd say it's a good job for the board ;-)
http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Membership_lapse_summary
jdd
On 28/02/12 00:54, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hey,
On 27.02.2012 07:56, Basil Chupin wrote:
I'll stop here
Why don't you stop altogether an just leave us "believers" alone? This is the mailing-list to discuss matters of the openSUSE project, not your personal soap-box. Get lost.
Henne
Thank you Henne.
A true gentleman as always.
BC
-
Alan Clark -
Andreas Jaeger -
Andrew Wafaa -
Basil Chupin -
Freek de Kruijf -
Henne Vogelsang -
jdd -
Kim Leyendecker -
Nelson Marques -
Pascal Bleser -
Per Jessen