[opensuse-project] openSUSE Leap's Next Major Version Number
Hi! I'm the one who thought up and suggested "Leap" for the project's then new regular release. Although I left the project shortly thereafter, I still feel some sympathy and take a look when openSuse is in the news. And "15" couldn't be missed. As far as I have understood this matter, the move was made to better reflect sync with SLE and to simplify packaging-macros (or whatever). But those are technicals, "inside-out-thinking" and not a good guideline for marketing-decisions. What counts is perception by your customers, the users. And the "leap" backwards in numbering will undoubtedly cause disbelief and confusion. Now that's a difficult situation. But there seems to be some time until release. And there may be a way out. What came to my mind was "Leap 42.15" Following releases would be Leap 42.151, 42.16 etc. Quite simple. But by merging Leap and 42 into one - perhaps even stronger- brand name "Leap 42", you'd *have* incrementing version-numbers, avoid confusion and still exhibit sync with SLE. The task of public backpedalling wouldn't be too difficult (though indispensable and nice to watch also ;)). Perhaps you can't simplify your packaging-macros and perhaps future "leaps" would seem rather small. But that would be the bullets you'd have to bite. Pales in comparison to the effects that a "leap" back would create. Well, that's it - HTH. Good luck! Rainer Fiebig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Rainer Fiebig <jrf@mailbox.org> wrote:
Hi!
I'm the one who thought up and suggested "Leap" for the project's then new regular release.
Although I left the project shortly thereafter, I still feel some sympathy and take a look when openSuse is in the news. And "15" couldn't be missed.
As far as I have understood this matter, the move was made to better reflect sync with SLE and to simplify packaging-macros (or whatever). But those are technicals, "inside-out-thinking" and not a good guideline for marketing-decisions.
What counts is perception by your customers, the users. And the "leap" backwards in numbering will undoubtedly cause disbelief and confusion.
Now that's a difficult situation. But there seems to be some time until release. And there may be a way out.
What came to my mind was
"Leap 42.15"
Following releases would be Leap 42.151, 42.16 etc.
Quite simple. But by merging Leap and 42 into one - perhaps even stronger- brand name "Leap 42", you'd *have* incrementing version-numbers, avoid confusion and still exhibit sync with SLE.
The task of public backpedalling wouldn't be too difficult (though indispensable and nice to watch also ;)).
Perhaps you can't simplify your packaging-macros and perhaps future "leaps" would seem rather small. But that would be the bullets you'd have to bite. Pales in comparison to the effects that a "leap" back would create.
Well, that's it - HTH.
Good luck!
Rainer Fiebig
I encourage the decision makers to consider this option. It seems the best so far that I've seen. It keeps the "Leap 42" message while also having the SLE 15 correlation. Thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Greg Freemyer composed on 2017-05-05 17:05 (UTC-0400):
Rainer Fiebig wrote: ...
Now that's a difficult situation. But there seems to be some time until release. And there may be a way out.
What came to my mind was
"Leap 42.15"
Following releases would be Leap 42.151, 42.16 etc. ... I encourage the decision makers to consider this option. It seems the best so far that I've seen. It keeps the "Leap 42" message while also having the SLE 15 correlation.
I disagree. Labels that impersonate numbers are abominations. 42.3 is an increment from 42.15 everywhere in the world except in software versions. Let the software packages continue using labels that look like numbers, but in the marketing names exposed to the world's minions, apparent count should proceed only upward. 150 is the minimal increase from 42.3 that incorporates 15. Next release would be an opportune time to do as was Fedora born 13 years ago - void of special characters in its Gnu name. 150 for next would be a bona fide leap. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello I'd like to chip in here also. I fully support going back to 15.x version numbers. The switch to 42.x had a horribly confusing effect on users (at least the ones around me that I saw). A lot of them were even calling these versions "OpenSUSE 4.2", the big numbering jump after 13.x being not understandable for their minds. And these were technical people. Going now with 15.x would reverse some of this confusion and the 42.x numbering will be forgotten in a few years. -- Łukasz "Cyber Killer" Korpalski sysadmin, aka a guy who's giving GNU/Linux systems to a lot of users mail: cyberkiller8@gmail.com xmpp: cyber_killer@jabster.pl site: http://www.ck40.ovh gpgkey: 0x72511999 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net //When replying to my e-mail, kindly please //write your message below the quoted text.
On 2017-05-06 07:54, Łukasz 'Cyber Killer' Korpalski wrote:
Hello
I'd like to chip in here also. I fully support going back to 15.x version numbers. The switch to 42.x had a horribly confusing effect on users (at least the ones around me that I saw). A lot of them were even calling these versions "OpenSUSE 4.2", the big numbering jump after 13.x being not understandable for their minds. And these were technical people.
Going now with 15.x would reverse some of this confusion and the 42.x numbering will be forgotten in a few years.
What will happen when we reach version 41.x? ;-P (oh, we'll think about year 2000 when we get there, it's too far away. We'll think of something) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
W dniu 06.05.2017 o 12:22, Carlos E. R. pisze:
On 2017-05-06 07:54, Łukasz 'Cyber Killer' Korpalski wrote:
Hello
I'd like to chip in here also. I fully support going back to 15.x version numbers. The switch to 42.x had a horribly confusing effect on users (at least the ones around me that I saw). A lot of them were even calling these versions "OpenSUSE 4.2", the big numbering jump after 13.x being not understandable for their minds. And these were technical people.
Going now with 15.x would reverse some of this confusion and the 42.x numbering will be forgotten in a few years.
What will happen when we reach version 41.x? ;-P
(oh, we'll think about year 2000 when we get there, it's too far away. We'll think of something)
If it was up to me, I'd just skip the number 42 when it comes or make version numbers that were not used e.g. start with 42.4. But that's not the point of the discussion now, we have a good 100 years to think of that like AFAIR Richard already said. IMO going with 15.x now is a good idea. -- Łukasz "Cyber Killer" Korpalski mail: cyberkiller8@gmail.com xmpp: cyber_killer@jabster.pl site: http://www.ck40.ovh gpgkey: 0x72511999 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net //When replying to my e-mail, kindly please //write your message below the quoted text.
Am 06.05.2017 um 07:54 schrieb Łukasz 'Cyber Killer' Korpalski:
Hello
I'd like to chip in here also. I fully support going back to 15.x version numbers. The switch to 42.x had a horribly confusing effect on users (at least the ones around me that I saw). A lot of them were even calling these versions "OpenSUSE 4.2", the big numbering jump after 13.x being not understandable for their minds. And these were technical people. Going now with 15.x would reverse some of this confusion and the 42.x numbering will be forgotten in a few years.
But this is true for "42" as well: There is no more confusion about "42" anymore. People have got used to it. You would try to solve a problem that's already gone. The confusion now would be going from 42.3 to 15. Just take a look: Leap 42.3 -> Leap 15 Leap 42.3 -> Leap 42.15 Which one would be more confusing? I wonder what the reactions would have been if the second one had been announced. I guess there would have been a lot less PR. ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
W dniu 06.05.2017 o 13:25, Rainer Fiebig pisze:
But this is true for "42" as well: There is no more confusion about "42" anymore. People have got used to it. You would try to solve a problem that's already gone.
The confusion now would be going from 42.3 to 15.
Incorrect, at least for the groups of people that I work with. They remember going through 12.x and 13.x and after the last 2 years still regard 42.x as something alien. Anyway, this discussion is going nowhere (because it is already decided). I just wanted to express my appreciation for going back to lower version numbers. -- Łukasz "Cyber Killer" Korpalski mail: cyberkiller8@gmail.com xmpp: cyber_killer@jabster.pl site: http://www.ck40.ovh gpgkey: 0x72511999 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net //When replying to my e-mail, kindly please //write your message below the quoted text.
Am 06.05.2017 um 00:21 schrieb Felix Miata:
Greg Freemyer composed on 2017-05-05 17:05 (UTC-0400):
Rainer Fiebig wrote: ...
Now that's a difficult situation. But there seems to be some time until release. And there may be a way out. What came to my mind was "Leap 42.15" Following releases would be Leap 42.151, 42.16 etc. ... I encourage the decision makers to consider this option. It seems the best so far that I've seen. It keeps the "Leap 42" message while also having the SLE 15 correlation. I disagree. Labels that impersonate numbers are abominations. You should have added "imo" here, imo. 42.3 is an increment from 42.15 everywhere in the world except in software versions. That's what it's all about here: software-version-numbers. And everywhere in the world everybody knows that those are *not* decimal-numbers. Let the software packages continue using labels that look like numbers, but in the marketing names exposed to the world's minions, "minions"? Is that how you look at openSuse-users? apparent count should proceed only upward. 150 is the minimal increase from 42.3 that incorporates 15. Nope. Next release would be an opportune time to do as was Fedora born 13 years ago - void of special characters in its Gnu name. 150 for next would be a bona fide leap.
The rationale for "Leap" is described clearly and sufficiently here: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2017-04/msg00670.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Rainer Fiebig composed on 2017-05-06 10:58 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Greg Freemyer composed on 2017-05-05 17:05 (UTC-0400):
I encourage the decision makers to consider this option. It seems the best so far that I've seen. It keeps the "Leap 42" message while also having the SLE 15 correlation.
I disagree. Labels that impersonate numbers are abominations.
You should have added "imo" here, imo.
"IMO" should be implied from the preceeding context. Disagreeing is expressing opinion. How about a restating that labels that impersonate numbers routinely induce confusion, not a whole lot unlike applying decimal prefixes to binary multiples: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
42.3 is an increment from 42.15 everywhere in the world except in software versions.
That's what it's all about here: software-version-numbers. And everywhere in the world everybody knows that those are *not* decimal-numbers.
"All" is part of the problem, mixing real numbers with labels that incorporate numerals. *Not* everybody in the world recognizes the difference between a label that looks like a number and a genuine number. The top of the mountain of software that comprises it, the distro release name, would be best off with a reading that presents no confusion alongside a subsequent or previous equivalent product release from the same source. There's no confusion that Fedora 19 is older than Fedora 25. There is no confusion that Ubuntu 14.04 is older than Ubuntu 16.10. There's opportunity for copious confusion if openSUSE versions 13.2 42.x and 15.15 exist, with or without including Leap in the labeling.
Let the software packages continue using labels that look like numbers, but in the marketing names exposed to the world's minions,
"minions"? Is that how you look at openSuse-users?
Minions are how I term all computer users who are not also computer programmers, people who use computers as tools to make work possible or easier rather than as devices to redesign and/or refine through reprogramming and/or rebuilding.
apparent count should proceed only upward. 150 is the minimal increase from 42.3 that incorporates 15.
Nope.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The whole number 150 is the whole number that is least larger than the number 42.3 which can incorporate the numerals 1 and 5 in sequence. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-06 11:50, Felix Miata wrote:
Rainer Fiebig composed on 2017-05-06 10:58 (UTC+0200):
That's what it's all about here: software-version-numbers. And everywhere in the world everybody knows that those are *not* decimal-numbers.
"All" is part of the problem, mixing real numbers with labels that incorporate numerals. *Not* everybody in the world recognizes the difference between a label that looks like a number and a genuine number.
Yep, it takes some learning. :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Am 06.05.2017 um 11:50 schrieb Felix Miata:
Rainer Fiebig composed on 2017-05-06 10:58 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed:
Greg Freemyer composed on 2017-05-05 17:05 (UTC-0400):
I encourage the decision makers to consider this option. It seems the best so far that I've seen. It keeps the "Leap 42" message while also having the SLE 15 correlation. I disagree. Labels that impersonate numbers are abominations. You should have added "imo" here, imo. "IMO" should be implied from the preceeding context. Disagreeing is expressing opinion.
How about a restating that labels that impersonate numbers routinely induce confusion, not a whole lot unlike applying decimal prefixes to binary multiples: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
42.3 is an increment from 42.15 everywhere in the world except in software versions. That's what it's all about here: software-version-numbers. And everywhere in the world everybody knows that those are *not* decimal-numbers. "All" is part of the problem, mixing real numbers with labels that incorporate numerals. *Not* everybody in the world recognizes the difference between a label that looks like a number and a genuine number. Do you know what nitpicking is? But alright, *not* everybody. Feel better now?
The top of the mountain of software that comprises it, the distro release name, would be best off with a reading that presents no confusion alongside a subsequent or previous equivalent product release from the same source. There's no confusion that Fedora 19 is older than Fedora 25. There is no confusion that Ubuntu 14.04 is older than Ubuntu 16.10. There's opportunity for copious confusion if openSUSE versions 13.2 42.x and 15.15 exist, with or without including Leap in the labeling.
And? What's your constructive suggestion then? "openSuse 150"?
Let the software packages continue using labels that look like numbers, but in the marketing names exposed to the world's minions, "minions"? Is that how you look at openSuse-users? Minions are how I term all computer users who are not also computer programmers, people who use computers as tools to make work possible or easier rather than as devices to redesign and/or refine through reprogramming and/or rebuilding.
Well, perhaps 0s and 1s are the right target-groups for you.
apparent count should proceed only upward. 150 is the minimal increase from 42.3 that incorporates 15. Nope. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The whole number 150 is the whole number that is least larger than the number 42.3 which can incorporate the numerals 1 and 5 in sequence.
See above. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Rainer Fiebig composed on 2017-05-06 14:16 (UTC+0200):
Felix Miata composed: Do you know what nitpicking is? But alright, *not* everybody. Feel better now?
Where I grew up, the implication of "not everybody" was far from everybody, not de minimus, significant number.
And? What's your constructive suggestion then? "openSuse 150"? Same now as when the thread was cross-posted new: https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2017-04/msg00597.html
1501 or 151 Just about anything lacking a dot would be good with me, e.g. 201711 or 1711 if release were to occur in November 2017. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi guys! I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one). However, I want to highlight a problem that I think is the most important one. Consider the following scenario: Someone wants to install Leap. Then he/she searches on Internet (Google) and saw Leap 15 and Leap 42.3. Without further information, this person will always grab the 42.3 ISO, thinking it is the latest one. What is the plan to avoid a huge number of new users installing a (possibly very old) OS on their computers? Best regards, Ronan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-06 20:09, Ronan Chagas wrote:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
However, I want to highlight a problem that I think is the most important one. Consider the following scenario:
Someone wants to install Leap. Then he/she searches on Internet (Google) and saw Leap 15 and Leap 42.3. Without further information, this person will always grab the 42.3 ISO, thinking it is the latest one. What is the plan to avoid a huge number of new users installing a (possibly very old) OS on their computers?
They will need a direct link. If they simply go to the download page, the first offering will be 15.0 Then they'll probably be confused. The download page will need some prominent info. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Ronan Chagas <ronisbr@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
However, I want to highlight a problem that I think is the most important one. Consider the following scenario:
Someone wants to install Leap. Then he/she searches on Internet (Google) and saw Leap 15 and Leap 42.3. Without further information, this person will always grab the 42.3 ISO, thinking it is the latest one. What is the plan to avoid a huge number of new users installing a (possibly very old) OS on their computers?
That problem will only last for a decade or two. I don't know why we should consider it relevant. </sarc> Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.05.2017 um 20:30 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Ronan Chagas <ronisbr@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
However, I want to highlight a problem that I think is the most important one. Consider the following scenario:
Someone wants to install Leap. Then he/she searches on Internet (Google) and saw Leap 15 and Leap 42.3. Without further information, this person will always grab the 42.3 ISO, thinking it is the latest one. What is the plan to avoid a huge number of new users installing a (possibly very old) OS on their computers? That problem will only last for a decade or two. I don't know why we should consider it relevant. </sarc>
Especially as 42.3 would be a good choice - even in 2037! Sorry. The marketer in me couldn't resist. ;)
Greg
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.05.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Ronan Chagas:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
Obviously not everyone shares that point of view. Otherwise there wouldn't have been that much discussion *after* the decision. ;) IMO you are too fatalistic here. Almost any decision can be revised - it's as simple and easy as that. Just a matter of whether you *want* to do that. Depends on the people involved.
However, I want to highlight a problem that I think is the most important one. Consider the following scenario:
Someone wants to install Leap. Then he/she searches on Internet (Google) and saw Leap 15 and Leap 42.3. Without further information, this person will always grab the 42.3 ISO, thinking it is the latest one. What is the plan to avoid a huge number of new users installing a (possibly very old) OS on their computers?
Best regards, Ronan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 2017-05-06 20:45, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
Am 06.05.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Ronan Chagas:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
Obviously not everyone shares that point of view. Otherwise there wouldn't have been that much discussion *after* the decision. ;)
Pointless discussion, also obviously. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 2017-05-06 20:45, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
Am 06.05.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Ronan Chagas:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one).
Obviously not everyone shares that point of view. Otherwise there wouldn't have been that much discussion *after* the decision. ;)
Pointless discussion, also obviously.
Shouldn't be. 18 months to release and the community is clearly not behind 15.0 in clear way. I can see how it benefits SLE. I don't see how it benefits openSUSE in the slightest. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.05.2017 um 22:01 schrieb Greg Freemyer:
On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Carlos E. R. <robin.listas@telefonica.net> wrote:
On 2017-05-06 20:45, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
Am 06.05.2017 um 20:09 schrieb Ronan Chagas:
Hi guys!
I have been following this discussion of new Leap numbering since I saw the news on Phoronix. As someone told here, I think it is already decided so there is no point to discuss whether it was or not a good decision (IMO, it was a bad one). Obviously not everyone shares that point of view. Otherwise there wouldn't have been that much discussion *after* the decision. ;) Pointless discussion, also obviously.
Shouldn't be.
18 months to release and the community is clearly not behind 15.0 in clear way.
I can see how it benefits SLE. I don't see how it benefits openSUSE in the slightest.
Greg
Alright, I think the board has reasons to re-evaluate their decision. If so many people tell you it was a bad decision, it probably *was* a bad decision. And there are new options on the table. Up to them. Anyway, I think I've done and said enough in this matter. More than I intended. And as you know: you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. ;) So good bye and good luck! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Obviously not everyone shares that point of view. Otherwise there wouldn't have been that much discussion *after* the decision. ;)
IMO you are too fatalistic here. Almost any decision can be revised - it's as simple and easy as that. Just a matter of whether you *want* to do that. Depends on the people involved.
Well, I really hope you are right! Because I am in the group that really did not like the new number sequence. Maybe someone in the board can tell us whether or not this decision is open for further discussion. Regards, Ronan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/05/2017 16:50, Rainer Fiebig wrote:
What counts is perception by your customers, the users. And the "leap" backwards in numbering will undoubtedly cause disbelief and confusion.
Now that's a difficult situation. But there seems to be some time until release. And there may be a way out.
What came to my mind was
"Leap 42.15"
Following releases would be Leap 42.151, 42.16 etc. +1 This is the first sensible suggestion I've seen so far although I see nothing wrong with carrying on with 42.3 then 43.1 or even 42.4. The 42.15 suggestion satisfies the need to have the name linked to the SLE version. From a packager's point of view the macros follow SLE anyway and I've never had the need to use the %leap_version macro and never will. Dave Plater -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Plater -
Felix Miata -
Greg Freemyer -
Rainer Fiebig -
Ronan Chagas -
Łukasz 'Cyber Killer' Korpalski