[opensuse-project] Invitation to OpenSUSE developers
Novell’s decision to go to great lengths to circumvent the patent framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the community. If you are an OpenSUSE developer who is concerned about the long term consequences of this pact, you may be interested in some of the events happening next week as part of the Ubuntu Open Week: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek We are hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to join the Ubuntu community - in any capacity, including developers and package maintainers. If you want to find out how Ubuntu works, how to contribute or participate, or how to get specific items addressed, there will be something for you. I’ll also be on IRC on Tuesday 28th to answer any questions you may have of me specifically, such as Luis’ questions about our position on software patents at http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/11/22/and-ubuntus-patent-stand/ There are a couple of sessions that would be particularly interesting for folks familiar with OpenSUSE. The Kubuntu team is hosting some events during the week to look at KDE and Ubuntu and to discuss the roadmap of their project. There are also a few events being hosted by the Ubuntu Desktop team’s, which I think should include some discussion of the ideas that came from the recent Ubuntu Developer Summit in Mountain View. There are a couple of Packaging 101 and Package Maintenance sessions too, specifically for developers. Ubuntu is structured to empower our community to get things done, and to maximise the opportunity for collaboration between teams that share a common vision (even if it’s not 100% of their vision, such as between the Gnome, KDE and XFCE desktop teams). While we’re always open to new members, we thought it would be a good idea to identify a dedicated week where new members would be the focus for our whole project. If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us. I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit. Mark --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Mark Shuttleworth a écrit :
I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial.
I think the tone of this message is controversial. You can have any opinion you like against the Novell/Microsoft agreement, but taking this to try such hack against openSUSE developpers is very far near a war declaration. I hope it's not. For I don't see Unbutu better than openSUSE on any respect jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi Mark, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@ubuntu.com> writes:
[...] If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.
We do share these goals as well.
I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit.
There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the open source community. Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - instead of fighting against each other. I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than just Linux users switching distributions. Regards, Andreas Project Lead openSUSE distribution -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
Andreas, thank you. That's wonderful. Saill On 11/24/2006 11:14 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Hi Mark,
Mark Shuttleworth <mark@ubuntu.com> writes:
[...] If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.
We do share these goals as well.
I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit.
There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the open source community.
Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - instead of fighting against each other.
I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than just Linux users switching distributions.
Regards, Andreas Project Lead openSUSE distribution
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On Fri, 24 Nov 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Mark Shuttleworth <mark@ubuntu.com> writes:
If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.
We do share these goals as well.
I think most NON-MS people do. I like to include all the BSD variants that have these same goals. I think the greatest problem is the in-fighting with in Linux. Some are a bit too far from understanding that user's just want the thing to work and work well. What I see as the major reason most people I work with use MS is that their application only runs on MS. We really need to get more of the great commercial applications working on Linux or a free solution. But most people still have to some how provide for themsevles and their families. We do not have all the time to code all these great applications, and still live. That is why there are commercial companies that support linux. We need them. We need to provide for the great applications or get the ones that work on MS to work on linux. I know that most of my customer use the OS that provides their needs. What ever that may be.
I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit.
There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the open source community.
Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - instead of fighting against each other.
I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than just Linux users switching distributions.
I would love to see more work for this than all the in fighting we have now. We really need to get our ducks together to provide what user's need. Then they can move from MS to a better solution. -- Boyd Gerber <gerberb@zenez.com> ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
There's been a lot of confusion and misrepresentation - and maybe not the best reaction from Novell to all the concerns and fears that the contract raised - but I do see us on the same side: as part of the open source community.
Mark, I'd like to invite you to discuss what possibilities we have to work together against the domination of Microsoft on the desktops - instead of fighting against each other.
I would prefer to see more users switching from Windows to Linux than just Linux users switching distributions.
Agreed, and I'm very happy to look for ways in which we can improve collaboration between Ubuntu and SuSE. We all want to see Linux distributions get stronger, and the proprietary platform forced to compete on a more open and healthy basis, and collaboration between distributions improves our chances of achieving that goal. There is room for many Linux distributions, and SuSE has obviously earned its place at the table through its long history of technical excellence. My mail was in no way denigrating SuSE, it was only pointing out the existence of the Ubuntu Open Week to those developers who happen to be looking around now because of the Novell stance on patents and the related Microsoft deal. And these concerned developers do exist - I've fielded several personal emails from SuSE developers shocked at the deal and looking to find out what Ubuntu's position on these matters is, with a view to switching if their questions are satisfactorily answered. I don't in any way blame the SuSE community for the Novell deal. It's not your fault that Novell accepted the terms of Microsoft's offer, perhaps without thinking of the consequences. But make no mistake that the consequences will be severe if Microsoft is allowed to maintain their view that the deal entitles them to claim that any Linux deployment must pay them a patent licence. Samba, the kernel, X, and many other pieces of the Linux desktop would be severely compromised if that pans out the way Microsoft would like. This is a serious, serious threat. I'm working hard to make sure that anybody, anywhere in the world can use a computer free of charge and study how it works - and this deal is a major offensive by the other side. Bruce Parens, the Samba Team, the Open Invention Network and others have all spoken out in protest because they can see what a devastating effect it will have if Microsoft carries the day on this one. I know many SuSE developers share the same goals as the Ubuntu project, so collaboration should be our primary goal. And I'm happy to work with you to figure out how we do so. Perhaps we can devote some time during the Open Week to discussing collaboration between distros, too? You'd be welcome to join us. Also, I would be happy to visit your next meeting, or online forum, to talk about this further, just let me know when and where. Mark (gpg-signed to avoid further speculation on authenticity :-)).
Mark Shuttleworth <mark@ubuntu.com> writes:
[...]
I know many SuSE developers share the same goals as the Ubuntu project, so collaboration should be our primary goal. And I'm happy to work with you to figure out how we do so. Perhaps we can devote some time during the Open Week to discussing collaboration between distros, too? You'd be welcome to join us. Also, I would be happy to visit your next meeting, or online forum, to talk about this further, just let me know when and where.
I'm really busy getting 10.2 out of the door this week. The next IRC meeting is scheduled for next week but I won't be available either - sorry :-( I'll come back to you and let's do something in January. Would that be ok? Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
How nice if you (and all of us) could cooperate instead of debating only, and in the extension perchance expect COMMON DISTRIBUTIONS based on the achievements of both Ubuntu and Opensuse - and a much more skilled MS-killer than before ... Regards, Leif
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
I'll come back to you and let's do something in January. Would that be ok?
Sounds good! Good luck for the release. Mark
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Mark, welcome on this list, Am Friday 24 November 2006 19:16 schrieb Mark Shuttleworth: ...
I know that posting this message to an OpenSUSE list will be controversial. I'm greatly respectful of the long tradition of excellence in the SuSE product and community and have no desire to undermine that with this post. That said, I think the position taken by Novell leadership in their contract with Microsoft is hugely disrespectful of the contributions of thousands of GPL programmers and contributors to SuSE, and I know that many are looking for a new place to get involved that is not subject to the same arbitrary executive intervention. Ubuntu is one option, as are Gentoo, Debian and other communities. Please accept this mail in that spirit.
I do accept that your disagreement with the contract, but I would like to ask you not to create the impression that SUSE or openSUSE.org is acting against GPL programmers. There is no practical change for GPL programmers by this contract (only for commercial Novell customers there is a change), anything else is FUD spread between open source communities. FUD is something what an open source project should keep away, since quite a lot of the developers from Canonical and SUSE do work together in various GPL based open source projects and we should avoid any bad blood to keep the good atmosphere there. FUD does divide us and do not make us stronger together. good evening adrian PS: seriously, I promise you that your baby (Ubuntu) is known enough, so everybody who want to switch will find it :) There is no reason for risking exact the situation some certain large commercial software company would like to have. Lets show them that in any doubt the open modell of open source communities, even when they may be competitive, remains to be stronger. -- Adrian Schroeter openSUSE.org project manager SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 24 November 2006 18:16, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and “undisclosed balance sheet liabilities”, then please do join us.
Ubuntu is a nice distro, but not as nice as SUSE :-) However, the above would ring truer if Canonical could do things like, for example, arrange its translation systems so that they feed into KDE instead of setting up what is in many ways an alternative, with scant regard to sending contributions back upstream. Come to that, it would be nice if Canonical saw fit to open-source its closed Rosetta web-translation system - do we have a date on that yet, Mr Shuttleworth? :-) -- Pob hwyl / Best wishes Kevin Donnelly www.kyfieithu.co.uk - KDE yn Gymraeg www.eurfa.org.uk - Geiriadur rhydd i'r Gymraeg www.rhedadur.org.uk - Rhedeg berfau Cymraeg www.cymrux.org.uk - Linux Cymraeg ar un CD --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi Mark, Reply below. Best regards, Paul On Saturday 25 November 2006 05:16, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
Novell’s decision to go to great lengths to circumvent the patent framework clearly articulated in the GPL has sent shockwaves through the community. If you are an OpenSUSE developer who is concerned about the long term consequences of this pact, you may be interested in some of the events happening next week as part of the Ubuntu Open Week:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
We are hosting a series of introductory sessions for people who want to join the Ubuntu community - in any capacity, including developers and package maintainers. If you want to find out how Ubuntu works, how to contribute or participate, or how to get specific items addressed, there will be something for you. I’ll also be on IRC on Tuesday 28th to answer any questions you may have of me specifically, such as Luis’ questions about our position on software patents at http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/11/22/and-ubuntus-patent-stand/ ...
I have been a member of the Sydney Linux User's Group for almost as long as I have been using SuSE Linux, so I have heard a bit about Ubuntu, particularly from Mark Waugh. Here are some of the questions I'll be asking later, possibly on Tuesday 28th: I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about Pia Waugh's comment, "Ballmer 0wnz us" http://pipka.org/blog/2006/11/23/ballmer-0wnz-us/ about Bruce Perens' petition http://techp.org/petition/show/1 and about "Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/community.mspx#E3 In particular, does Ubuntu have a "binding contribution agreement" and does it say anything like "as a condition of receiving the attached contribution of Your Original Work, Ubuntu does not receive from You the contributor any licenses, covenants or any other rights under any 'company X' intellectual property with respect to that Original Work, and Ubuntu will ensure that all further recipients of this Original Work will be subject to this same condition", where 'company X' is eg. Microsoft? In your opinion, is such an agreement compatible with GPLv2, especially in the case where 'company X' has itself contributed software to Ubuntu under GPLv2? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 25 November 2006 10:45, Paul C. Leopardi wrote:
particularly from Mark Waugh. Jeff! Jeff! I meant Jeff http://perkypants.org/blog/ not the cricketer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Waugh Sorry.
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Paul C. Leopardi wrote:
Here are some of the questions I'll be asking later, possibly on Tuesday 28th:
I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about Pia Waugh's comment, "Ballmer 0wnz us" http://pipka.org/blog/2006/11/23/ballmer-0wnz-us/ about Bruce Perens' petition http://techp.org/petition/show/1 and about "Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org" http://www.microsoft.com/interop/msnovellcollab/community.mspx#E3
In particular, does Ubuntu have a "binding contribution agreement" and does it say anything like "as a condition of receiving the attached contribution of Your Original Work, Ubuntu does not receive from You the contributor any licenses, covenants or any other rights under any 'company X' intellectual property with respect to that Original Work, and Ubuntu will ensure that all further recipients of this Original Work will be subject to this same condition", where 'company X' is eg. Microsoft? In your opinion, is such an agreement compatible with GPLv2, especially in the case where 'company X' has itself contributed software to Ubuntu under GPLv2?
We don't have a contribution agreement for Ubuntu as a whole. We do have contribution agreements for things like the Bazaar revision control system (www.bazaar-vcs.org) which is under the GPL. I think Pia and Bruce have spoken strongly against the Microsoft-Novell deal because they can see clearly what Microsoft is trying to achieve. Microsoft would like to ensure that customers fear to deploy any version of Linux that is NOT blessed by Microsoft, and that boils down to any version of Linux which does not include a patent fee. So OpenSUSE, Debian, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Fedora and many other forms of Linux would be banned under this agreement. Worse, if Microsoft has its way, the developers of certain GPL applications could themselves be sued by Microsoft. Remember - when someone promises NOT to sue a person, they are implicitly saying they would be willing to sue everyone else. This is why the Samba team have taken such a strong position against the Novell-Microsoft deal. I'll be happy to answer further questions on the 28th. I think I've taken more than my share of bandwidth on the SuSE lists for now, so I'll go quiet here though I'm staying subscribed to the lists so I can keep up with some of the discussions here. Mark
If you have an interest in being part of a vibrant community that cares about keeping free software widely available and protecting the rights of people to get it free of charge, free to modify, free of murky encumbrances and "undisclosed balance sheet liabilities", then please do join us.
Ubuntu ? Is this the same distro that decided to add non-free binaries with your distribution in a illegal way ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AcceleratedX/Comments Considering that you decided to brake the GPL to add desktop effects in a easier way to costumers, is a little funny to hear you about "protect the rights of people". -- Marcel Mourguiart
Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read: http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553 Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On 2006-11-25 00:07, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read:
http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553
Andreas
So what's the SABDFL (presumably a reference to Shuttleworth) in Burgundavia's blog mean, "self-appointed, benign and divine, fearless leader"? Personally, if Ubuntu was the last Linux distro on earth, after this I would not use it. I will switch to BSD before I will use Ubuntu. But we do no one any service, least of all ourselves, by perpetuating comment on this foolish behaviour of a foolish man. The best way to deal with Mark Shuttleworth is to treat his "invitation", as the Japanese would say, with noble silence. -- The best way to accelerate a computer running Windows is at 9.81 m/s² --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 11/24/2006 10:07 PM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read:
http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553
All questions of divisiveness and GPL-fidelity aside, two things impress me deeply here. 1. Grand Ubuntu Poobah's cojones in coming forth as an individual and issuing such an invitation. 2. The freedom and public openness with which others in the organization state their views on their leader's decision. Quite remarkable. Saill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Not sure whether you have seen these reactions, especially the first two from Ubuntu folks are interesting to read:
http://www.advogato.org/person/Burgundavia/diary.html?start=113 https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-November/022578.html http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 http://daniel.molkentin.de/blog/index.php?/archives/58-Ubuntus-Quest-for-Ope... http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/2553
Andreas
http://www.novell.com/coolblogs/?p=648 SuSE's great engineering...! That's what I'm talking about. This is what, I for one, really like about suse. It is really good. Solid and tight. And literally packed full of almost anything you could want or think of. If it ain't in there, download it or make it yourself. It ain't perfect, but it's dang good. I"m not so sure about the other guys good marketing (I have yet to get ubuntu to boot on my office machine, 3 versions later). I mean, suse really looks good to me. It took quite a while, but I find among many windows boxes, I really like using suse with kde. Its good. Has its quirks, but most do. It just took a while to get used to. I truly like it. (Haven't seen the new menus others are complaining about. But if its kde I'm sure you can change it in a snap). One of the first things I got used to very quickly was just everyday surfing. Firefox is good, so is Opera, and Konqueror but I'm not used to it on the web.(Konqueror does do one heck of an ftp download). And with the piece of mind of a much reduced risk of being effected by the mass of rot there is out there. Windows guys, can you say safe? Many other things start to stand out once you get the feel of it. It is different. Installing apps, whoa! You mean you can't just double-click it? What kind of deal is this? But for a newbie that's probably good. They can't change too many things at first and screw stuff up. It is powerful machinery. As you learn it, it gets easier. And as an added bonus you get to learn much more about computers in general than you ever knew about. Even if you think you know something about computers. I am of course talking about coming from windows here, although you can learn here wherever you come from. I was thinking about Balmer's comments at the Professional Association for SQL Server conference. At first I could not believe that. I didn't need to read upcoming news stories to see that that was a double slap in the face. The gaul of those people, I was thinking. I mean, do they continually spit out all this goop that they actually believe it, or more, that they are so used to spitting out all of this stuff about their actual software (how well its built, safe, secure, blah blah blah) that they just are really used to doing that. Spewing. But now I think that they actually really don't care much. They just throw this bullshite out there just because. Bust because they can. And just for the fun of it. They don't care one way or another. They throw it out there, and if they get the reaction they wanted, so much the better. I mean with all of this stuff out here in the lists of all the angry discussions, the fracturing of some of our community. If they beat us on that, they will say that was easy. But if we stay our course (with upcoming changes big and small; thats what this community is best at. Change), well then - they will have to compete on technology, not fud, mud, or drud. Actually compete. One thing that was made clear is that they intend to compete. Compete, compete, compete. Sha. Thats why I like suse. It is great engineering! The base is solid, the trimmings are nice, the distro is complete, best in breed configuration, and leading edge. What more could you ask for? Truly? That's why 'they' picked Novell. Suse is good. What an endorsement. Or what a threat. Who cares? Lets just do what we do. Let the people at novell who do the selling, sell. I don't know you guys, but knock yourselves out! I'm looking for a good, long term growth, stock to buy. Actually more than one, but that's another story :) Someone here said that that's what we wanted novell to do, make it commercial. Make it a commercial success. Let help them. For better or worse, we're here now. Lets get it on. I'm no developer TSTL. But is use it, and tweak it a bit. And tried installing gnome to check that out, and i started a server with email and web services, then i replaced it with a better server, only set up better. PIII. Other than slow graphics, that thing humms, and is as steady as a rock in the rain. Never stutters. At least not so far. Astounding what's in there. Truly. Well, sorry for the length. I just wanted to say that as long as Andreas and his group is hyped, i'm with him. I'll upgrade when I'm convinced, as before. Till then, there is no reason to change a thing. If suse dorks, well I'll change then. At this point I don't intend to. As long as it keeps getting better, I'm a happy man. And I'll go on doing my meager part of merely enjoying the use of it. I'm looking forward to 10.2. If you are a windows user, how long has it been since you've set down at your computer, and knew exactly where it was at, what it was doing, not worrying for an instant that is wasn't doing exactly the same thing was doing 6 months ago. Gives me peace of mind. 'Works great / more secure'. Sounds like a beer commercial. Anyway, I've been in suse since 8.2. Good issue, but many great advances since then as well. I think that is why this news has hit some of us so hard. We know how good suse is, esp compared to others distros. We just don't want to see this great technology be lead by its owners (current or otherwise) to be less that its potential. I for one am staying with it. To me the upside of what suse can be is worth more to me than the cost of changing at this point. There is something special with suse and its community. Somehow it came to be the best, but without the most hype or press, to say the least. There is something special in that. I'm with Andreas and this community. Jim Flanagan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Hi, if someone feels they would like to share their knoweldge and ideas on OpenSuSE, I invite you to write articles for Linux+DVD magazine. It is now published in USA and Australia where Linux distros are not so known yet and need to be popularized and described in a nice way. contact : editors@lpmagazine.org ; deadline for the next issue - December 11 In return - free advertising space for your project or company in the magazine and on the website is offered. -- Magda Blaszczyk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (13)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Jaeger -
Boyd Lynn Gerber -
Darryl Gregorash -
jdd sur free -
Jim Flanagan -
Kevin Donnelly -
leif＠hjerpe.org -
Magdalena Błaszczyk -
Marcel Mourguiart -
Mark Shuttleworth -
Paul C. Leopardi -
Saill White