...

...

On 9/16/2010 at 02:21 PM, Henne Vogelsang wrote: Hey,

On 16.09.2010 10:35, DenverD wrote:

...

but, it _seems_ to me that there has been a sharp drop off of Novell employees contributing/posting to the mail lists/forums since the NYPost scoop..

LOL, oh please...

...

i wonder what happens if (as has happened too often in recent weeks) the forum (or mail lists/irc/wiki/etc) machines/nets need TLC to return to work...

Then the people who care for that will take care of that. Like always.

...

just thinking out loud: do 'we' need to make some backup plans _before_ the communications networks go down and _then_ learn our corporate sponsor has lost interest in 'we' and has decided to save those man hours for more profitable endeavors ??

Would you stop spreading this FUD? Do you really think that we are that spineless? A lot of your contributions make me wonder if you would not be better of in some other project where you feel comfortable to take off your tinfoil hat. Have you considered that? :)

I give you my word that openSUSE will not drop off the face of the earth. No matter what the future brings.

Also note, Henne's signature does not apply here. ;-) Just kidding. Thanks Nikanth

Henne

-- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 12:07 +0200, DenverD wrote:

Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hey,

On 16.09.2010 10:35, DenverD wrote:

...

but, it _seems_ to me that there has been a sharp drop off of Novell employees contributing/posting to the mail lists/forums since the NYPost scoop..

LOL, oh please...

I would hardly consider the time period between the Post's scoop and now as indicative of a dropoff by anyone, Novell employee or anyone. That's just too short of a period to reflect anything meaningful. And even if an agreement to sell is indeed going to happen 4 weeks from now, there is still a long period ahead of us for regulatory review of the buyout. We won't see any major changes in the very near future, for sure.

...

...

i wonder what happens if (as has happened too often in recent weeks) the forum (or mail lists/irc/wiki/etc) machines/nets need TLC to return to work...

Then the people who care for that will take care of that. Like always.

I agree with Henne's statement here. People invested personally in the Project are invested personally because they care. And if they care more or less after such a sale occurs, we'll deal with it at that time. No use getting paranoid and starting a witch hunt to figure out who is going to stay and who is going to leave before it happens.

...

...

just thinking out loud: do 'we' need to make some backup plans _before_ the communications networks go down and _then_ learn our corporate sponsor has lost interest in 'we' and has decided to save those man hours for more profitable endeavors ??

Would you stop spreading this FUD? Do you really think that we are that spineless? A lot of your contributions make me wonder if you would not be better of in some other project where you feel comfortable to take off your tinfoil hat. Have you considered that? :)

I give you my word that openSUSE will not drop off the face of the earth. No matter what the future brings.

believe it or not, i'm not worried about anything dropping off the face of the earth so much as how we will reconstitute capability *if* the mail lists/wiki/fora and etc were to suddenly be unsupported (with, electricity...say)..

if you are sure everything is gonna be smooth, then great..

its just in my former lives it was always best to plan for the worst, and hope for the best..

my experience is if you plan for the best, it is difficult to re-plan in the dark.

ymmv, tinfoil or not.

DenverD

I think Denver asks a fair question, though perhaps could have been worded more clearly. It is fair to ask ourselves as a community... "What could this mean for us and how does this impact us?" However, its a hard question to answer because we truly don't know the details. As far as I can tell, even inside SUSE, most people at Novell don't know anything more than what the rest of us know from that NY Post scoop. We have no idea who this buyer is and how this buyer will recognize openSUSE as a valuable commodity that benefits the SLE enterprise products. Regardless of a buyout or not, it is always good for the Community to look at itself and ask itself if it is on good solid sure ground. Such a question about the future of the Project and where we are should be asked regardless of Novell's activities and that's the attitude we need to focus on. Truth be told, the stronger we make ourselves as an important "upstream" project of the SLE family, the more Novell, or its successor, or anyone, will take notice of us and recognize that we're here to stay and we do something very important here. So, keep your heads focused on the prize -- openSUSE Project, and don't let the activities of our partners deter from what we are doing. Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 09/16/2010 06:20 AM, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

Truth be told, the stronger we make ourselves as an important "upstream" project of the SLE family, the more Novell, or its successor, or anyone, will take notice of us and recognize that we're here to stay and we do something very important here.

So, keep your heads focused on the prize -- openSUSE Project, and don't let the activities of our partners deter from what we are doing.

Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member

While I don't necessarily agree or disagree with DenverD, his post reflects a clear reality: the OpenSUSE "community" could effectively disappear in the course of a day. It just happened with Open Solaris. Read some of the blogs by former Open Solaris contributors! I think they provide some valuable lessons-learned. I suspect that whether or not OpenSUSE is or is not important to SLE (I've heard both sides of the argument here) is of no relevance. It's unlikely that the folk making the decisions will know anything about the project other than projected cost. The only way OpenSUSE can ever be safe from the whims of the accountants and financiers is to become independent of any single large corporate sponser. I don't see it happening ... so uncertainty is the prevalent reality .... oxala -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

2010/9/16 C :

What large open source project is actually independent of a large (or multiple) corporate sponsor?  OpenOffice.org has Oracle, Ubuntu has

*BSD. Best Martin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 09/16/2010 08:47 AM, C wrote:

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 15:37, Charles Wight wrote:

...

The only way OpenSUSE can ever be safe from the whims of the accountants and financiers is to become independent of any single large corporate sponser. I don't see it happening ... so uncertainty is the prevalent reality .... What large open source project is actually independent of a large (or multiple) corporate sponsor? OpenOffice.org has Oracle, Ubuntu has Canonical, openSUSE has Novell and so on. There are a few single-application projects that may bumble along on their own, but it's a rare animal the size and scope of openSUSE that is actually independent.

C.

BTW, there is a BIG difference between accepting corporate donations/contributions and being dependent upon a single sponsor! Mozilla is NOT a single product project. They are a software development powerhouse! Products like firefox and thunderbird are simply their most visible works. For example, there are probably few websites of any significance, corporate or otherwise, that don't use Mozilla's xerces and xalan libraries. oxala -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On 09/16/2010 09:24 AM, DenverD wrote:

Charles Wight wrote:

...

On 09/16/2010 08:47 AM, C wrote:

...

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 15:37, Charles Wight wrote:

...

The only way OpenSUSE can ever be safe from the whims of the accountants and financiers is to become independent of any single large corporate sponser. I don't see it happening ... so uncertainty is the prevalent reality .... What large open source project is actually independent of a large (or multiple) corporate sponsor? OpenOffice.org has Oracle, Ubuntu has Canonical, openSUSE has Novell and so on. There are a few single-application projects that may bumble along on their own, but it's a rare animal the size and scope of openSUSE that is actually independent.

C. BTW, there is a BIG difference between accepting corporate donations/contributions and being dependent upon a single sponsor! [snip]

and, it is this dependence that got me to thinking about the situation the Community _might_ be in if suddenly our sponsor (today, or next month) decided to not pay _our_ electricity/communications costs..

sure, i have no doubt that openSUSE can persist..

but, wonder if maybe we need to increase the speed at which we work toward an openSUSE Foundation *and* build more independence....sooner, rather than later (notwithstanding Henne Vogelsang "word" that all openSUSE folks who are not willing to lay back/relax& wait/see would be better off in some other project....or should tweak their tinfoil hat!)

DenverD

Hello DenverD, NOW is usually the best time to do anything of genuine importance. You speak of "we" in "need to increase the speed at which we work toward an openSUSE Foundation *and* build more independence". I certainly agree, but I honestly don't know who the relevant "we" actually are and what, if any, resources are available. I'm willing to help anyway I can ... but that assumes there is something I can do. I'm not Mark Shuttleworth; all I have to contribute is a little time and expertise! That said, you know where to find me ... I'll be wearing the propeller cap. charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:07:56 +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Once you have some basic understanding of how our community works you can come back and we find something to do for you.

If I want to contribute, I'll work on what *I* want to work on. Why should I care what you think? -- Web mail, POP3, and SMTP http://www.beewyz.com/freeaccounts.php -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

but, wonder if maybe we need to increase the speed at which we work toward an openSUSE Foundation *and* build more independence....

to encrease the speed, we have to work, not speak about obvious questions. Be practical, find a lawyer... people presently involved work full free time and can't do more (or don't have the knowledge)... jdd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 09:01, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

Hey,

On 16.09.2010 16:24, DenverD wrote:

...

but, wonder if maybe we need to increase the speed at which we work toward an openSUSE Foundation *and* build more independence....sooner, <BIG snip>

I don't very often post, but felt so inclined this time. Disclaimer, I am a Novell employee. The idea/thought that we all went silent is kind of annoying... you'd rather us be constantly active on the list instead of fixing bugs... I didn't really find time to post on MLs or forum or wiki while digging through gtk+ code to fix a bug. You guys pick bugs or emailing... Also, about the single sponsor thing... How often did you guys buy the box set? Have you donated hardware? Have you maybe paid someone's travel? Have you paid for yourself to go to a conference to promote openSUSE? Or is this just about getting more for nothing? Has Novell been that horrible of a steward over openSUSE that you have to get rid of it at all costs? Under Novell, huge thanks to the suse engineers, you get to enjoy a free distro, free build service (that is open source and you can run your own), openFate (also free and open source), kiwi (an awesome image building tool), suse studio (not all open source, but free), flown some community people around, banshee, the mono project (whether you like it or not I don't really care.. still on the list), etc All we seem to do is complain about Novell and its engineers... Why don't you start publicly thanking them for the work that they do do? Cheers, Stephen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Charles Wight wrote:

They are a software development powerhouse! Products like firefox and thunderbird are simply their most visible works. For example, there are probably few websites of any significance, corporate or otherwise, that don't use Mozilla's xerces and xalan libraries.

Aren't they (xerces and xalan) apache projects? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (13.7°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On 16.09.2010 15:37, Charles Wight wrote:

On 09/16/2010 06:20 AM, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

...

Truth be told, the stronger we make ourselves as an important "upstream" project of the SLE family, the more Novell, or its successor, or anyone, will take notice of us and recognize that we're here to stay and we do something very important here.

So, keep your heads focused on the prize -- openSUSE Project, and don't let the activities of our partners deter from what we are doing.

While I don't necessarily agree or disagree with DenverD, his post reflects a clear reality: the OpenSUSE "community" could effectively disappear in the course of a day.

A neat example of FUD again. Reduce a highly complex situation to a single sentence to emphasize the outcome you foretell. Nearly all the opensolaris infrastructure works untill today doesn't it? Especially communication channels and the like...

The only way OpenSUSE can ever be safe from the whims of the accountants and financiers is to become independent of any single large corporate sponser. I don't see it happening ... so uncertainty is the prevalent reality ....

You certainly don't do anything to do change this. So why don't you just sit back and watch instead of telling the people who seriously try to do something about it that they are doomed to fail? Put up or shut up Charles! :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

El 16/09/10 10:30, Charles Wight escribió:

The uncertainty is real, not FUD.

OpenSOLARIS as an Oracle product is alive and well.

Unix is dead, since a loong, looooooooong time

The OpenSOLARIS "community" ended in the course of a day.

A symptom that unix is dead, that's it. Whether or not OpenSUSE survives as a product will depend upon it's

value to Novell's successor.

There is no sucessfull linux distribution out there without and opensource project behind it, RH/Fedora, canonical/Ubuntu ..etc.. you get the idea. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

* Charles Wight [2010-09-16 15:37]:

On 09/16/2010 06:20 AM, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

...

Truth be told, the stronger we make ourselves as an important "upstream" project of the SLE family, the more Novell, or its successor, or anyone, will take notice of us and recognize that we're here to stay and we do something very important here.

So, keep your heads focused on the prize -- openSUSE Project, and don't let the activities of our partners deter from what we are doing.

Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member

While I don't necessarily agree or disagree with DenverD, his post reflects a clear reality: the OpenSUSE "community" could effectively disappear in the course of a day. It just happened with Open Solaris. Read some of the blogs by former Open Solaris contributors! I think they provide some valuable lessons-learned.

Apart from the fact that OpenSolaris never was as open or community-based as openSUSE has become already, it is a good example how the end of such a (open-source) project can be the beginning of something new which has the potential to become something even better in terms of openness and community-focus.

I suspect that whether or not OpenSUSE is or is not important to SLE (I've heard both sides of the argument here) is of no relevance. It's unlikely that the folk making the decisions will know anything about the project other than projected cost.

The only way OpenSUSE can ever be safe from the whims of the accountants and financiers is to become independent of any single large corporate sponser. I don't see it happening ... so uncertainty is the prevalent reality ....

Nothing is ever 100% certain, you could say the same about Canonical which apparently still depends on the funding of a single individual. Given the community interest in openSUSE you can be fairly certain that it will be continued in one way or another should a possible new owner discontinue sponsorship. And this probably applies to Ubuntu, or Fedora as well. That is not to say that more diverse funding wouldn't be a good thing. Why is there till no foundation? P.S. If your interested in a replacement for OpenSolaris, join us at http://openindiana.org/ -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 16 September 2010 09:56:13 Charles Wight wrote:

On 09/16/2010 09:43 AM, Guido Berhoerster wrote:

...

P.S.

If your interested in a replacement for OpenSolaris, join us at http://openindiana.org/

THANKS!

So, all the talk came because you lost the nest. I can understand that. You can see that opensource communities have their ways to survive unfavorable changes, and considering openSUSE and pulling the plug, there is infrastructure that is not Novell. Not as big and powerful, but it is just enough that pulling a plug is not critical. If people recall that there is a Google search then all problems are solved :) -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Am Tuesday 21 September 2010 schrieb DenverD:

DenverD wrote:

...

[snip]

i wonder what happens if (as has happened too often in recent weeks) the forum (or mail lists/irc/wiki/etc) machines/nets need TLC to return to work...[snip]

like now: the gateway between the nntp and http forums has been down since about midnight in Utah...and (if history serves as a predictor) it will probably remain down until a Utah employee gets to work and gets time to fix the problem..

And all volunteers are up 24 hours and don't sleep and have work to do for a living, right? Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 21 September 2010 20:52:49 DenverD wrote:

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Tuesday 21 September 2010 schrieb DenverD:

...

...

[snip]

i wonder what happens if (as has happened too often in recent weeks) the forum (or mail lists/irc/wiki/etc) machines/nets need TLC to return to work...[snip]

DenverD wrote: like now: the gateway between the nntp and http forums has been down since about midnight in Utah...and (if history serves as a predictor) it will probably remain down until a Utah employee gets to work and gets time to fix the problem..

And all volunteers are up 24 hours and don't sleep and have work to do for a living, right?

perhaps you would have a different view if these mail lists, SUSE Studio, IRC or your chosen method/communications means to contribute were unavailable for hours at a time on nine days in the past three months (2 Jul, 9 Jul, 21 Jul, 15 Aug, 22 Aug, 4 Sep, 13 Sep, 14 Sep, and 21 Sep...was down over seven hours today)..

we can hope the buyer is able to find volunteer (or contracted) administrators on three or more sides of earth.

Well if the community is unhappy with the services provided by Novell and the other sponsors, we can look for money somewhere else. If you have ideas on how to provide about a 100.000 worth of bandwith, diskspace and computing power a year, I'm sure the board loves to hear it. At least, once a foundation has been set up, we can start planning for improvements in our infrastructure. And I guess your concerns come with a willingness to do something about it so we can put you down as volunteer for maintenance, right? Until then, let's be happy Novell is paying for our infrastructure. It might not be perfect but as Stephan basically said - volunteer-run infrastructure won't be either.

DenverD

Jos Poortvliet wrote:

On Tuesday 21 September 2010 20:52:49 DenverD wrote:

...

...

Am Tuesday 21 September 2010 schrieb DenverD:

...

...

[snip]

i wonder what happens if (as has happened too often in recent weeks) the forum (or mail lists/irc/wiki/etc) machines/nets need TLC to return to work...[snip]

DenverD wrote: like now: the gateway between the nntp and http forums has been down since about midnight in Utah...and (if history serves as a predictor) it will probably remain down until a Utah employee gets to work and gets time to fix the problem..

And all volunteers are up 24 hours and don't sleep and have work to do for a living, right?

Stephan Kulow wrote: perhaps you would have a different view if these mail lists, SUSE Studio, IRC or your chosen method/communications means to contribute were unavailable for hours at a time on nine days in the past three months (2 Jul, 9 Jul, 21 Jul, 15 Aug, 22 Aug, 4 Sep, 13 Sep, 14 Sep, and 21 Sep...was down over seven hours today)..

we can hope the buyer is able to find volunteer (or contracted) administrators on three or more sides of earth.

Well if the community is unhappy with the services provided by Novell and the other sponsors, we can look for money somewhere else. If you have ideas on how to provide about a 100.000 worth of bandwith, diskspace and computing power a year, I'm sure the board loves to hear it. At least, once a foundation has been set up, we can start planning for improvements in our infrastructure. And I guess your concerns come with a willingness to do something about it so we can put you down as volunteer for maintenance, right?

i'm afraid the Community would be *very* disappointed if i volunteered to maintain our comm links/networks....because if selected all would suffer from a 'simple user' playing administrator.. on the other hand, i am leveraging my meager technical talents the best i can to maintain my own system and help those new folks with even less capability.. additionally, i've been known to make cash (and time) donations to worthy causes of many ilk (including open source).. may i ask: is it required to actually _have_ the technical ability to remedy a problem before one is allowed to voice it? if so, i guess i better leave. on the other hand, some may be surprised to know that even those technologically untrained/unable to keep comm systems/networks humming along smoothly can (sometimes) recognize when the _system_ of hardware, software, and _administrator_ availability is broken and/or not performing at an acceptable or optimal level.. and, for the record: i'm very happy we currently have sponsors with 100,000 available to keep the digits moving....today. and, don't see the wisdom in waiting until they cease (if they do) to begin taking steps to find alternative sources and capabilities, *should* they be needed.. DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 22 September 2010 09:59:38 Karsten König wrote:

It's not helping to voice the same concern over and over again without offering an alternative.

How about servers that are not all located in one place, as alternative to what we have now. Not as powerful and expensive, but able to jump in when main is down for whatever reason? Imagine HP.com down? Why that would be a problem?

The current infrastructure is good and we can be thankful for Novell for sponsoring it, there is no alternative in sight. You can help by creating an alternative, it won't be started by people who deem the current situation acceptable, which I believe is the majority.

I agree, and that is exactly what DeverD is trying to do, alert people that infrastructure needs improvement, so simply discarding his effort as dissent doesn't show that some people gave enough thoughts to his words. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet wrote:

I think if such questions come up it's probably best to initially talk about them with eg the board or me or others who might know the answer in private. If many have questions like these, the board or others would do a statement. And of course if the answer you get from them/me/others is not satisfactory you're free to discuss it in public

had anyone ever made that offer before, i might have sent the note that started this thread, directly to the board...and, thereby missed getting _smeared_ with that FUD brush so liberally to used to quieten any who think ignoring all potential eventualities is not the best plan forward..

- I don't want to hide issues or anything. Just asking for a bit more restraint...

more (with restraint), in your mail. DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Jim Henderson wrote:

It seems to me the sensible thing to do is to stay aware of the situation with Novell and *if* something happens to the company, react to that announcement *when it happens*

thank you for your experienced opinion.. DenverD -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:07:44 +0100, Administrator wrote:

<snip lots of stuff I agree with>

...

It seems to me the sensible thing to do is to stay aware of the situation with Novell and *if* something happens to the company, react to that announcement *when it happens* because the odds of the entire infrastructure just being powered off the instant an announcement is made are really quite small. In the incredibly unlikely event that situation were to happen, a core group (the board) would already know how to contact each other and start work to get an infrastructure up, domain names transferred and so on, and get the systems back online as soon as possible.

Here I disagree. There is the possibility that at some time (sooner or later) OS will need an alternative supplier of infrastructure. It is sensible for any organisation to prepare plans (but not enact them) against such a major and likely eventuality. Maybe the board is already doing so.

Perhaps they are - though as Jos pointed out, the infrastructure donation Novell has made is rather valuable, having something that costly "on standby" is likely to be fairly expensive as well. Hot site backups don't come cheap. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:27:48 +0100, Administrator wrote:

...

Perhaps they are - though as Jos pointed out, the infrastructure donation Novell has made is rather valuable, having something that costly "on standby" is likely to be fairly expensive as well. Hot site backups don't come cheap.

It's not so much having a hot standby, but having a plan of what you would do, and having had "what if" discussions with potential supporters / suppliers. It's fairly standard in for any business-critical service for the customer to have informal and confidential discussions with the current supplier's competitors to see what options there are. I would suggest that some such is needed here.

True, and I certainly can't/wouldn't dispute that a contingency plan is a good thing to have. But part of such a plan would have to include how to pay for it if it had to be put in place. Perhaps such discussions are underway.

Obviously a difficult thing for the Novell board members to be party to, or indeed for the competitors to supply any serious information knowing the Novell board members would see it.

Well, I could see it being difficult from the standpoint of steering clear of any discussion/speculation about Novell's future, but in terms of planning, I don't see that there should be any difficulty. As an employee myself, I know the difficulty all of us "on the inside" are faced with when it comes to this type of speculation (because we're expressly barred from discussing any potential scenarios for legal reasons), but in terms of service continuation? I personally don't see that there should be any problem in discussing it. The thing that ultimately needs to be done is a contingency plan, but without the "the sky is falling" feeling based on speculation based on rumours in some of the press or based on the idea that if the sponsor were to be acquired or broken up that services would stop *immediately* when an announcement were made. Jim -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org