[opensuse-project] Board Meeting Minutes - 6 Feb 1500 CEST
openSUSE Board Meeting Minutes 6 Feb 2017 1500 CEST -- Attendees -- Richard Brown - Chair Tomas Chvatal Gertjan Lettink Michal Hrusecky Bryan Lunduke Absent -- Andrew Waffaa - Tresurer Kostas Koudaras Guests -- Martin Pluskal - Election Coordinator Agenda/Minutes -- openSUSE Infrastructure ---- There have been a number of openSUSE infrastructure issues in recent months, which the Board have been quietly working to address. This includes slow performance at peak times of various openSUSE web services (including download.opensuse.org), long lead times on fixes to aformentioned services (eg. several months to get updates to www.opensuse.org), long/no response to admin@opensuse.org tickets, issues with connect.opensuse.org that caused the cancellation of the openSUSE elections, and now issues with news.opensuse.org. These services are all hosted in datacenters run by either SUSE IT or Micro Focus IT with SUSE IT being responsible for the liason with Micro Focus IT when it is necessary. The Chairman has been liasing with SUSE Management over recent weeks about these issues but the Board remain concerned regarding the progress on resolving the issues, and the regular apperance of new issues. SUSE Management are actively discussing the situation, while SUSE IT are actively working to address many of the issues. The Board is considering its options regarding the situation, including the possibility of escalating these issues higher up the SUSE/MF Management structure. In the last few days there has been an uptick in the urgency in which these concerns are being addressed. Given this, the Board decided in todays meeting to take no immediate action, but to have an extraordinary Board meeting at 1500 CEST next Monday 13th Feb to review the situation and discuss next steps. Board Elections ---- Due to the technical issues with connect.opensuse.org duplicating names on the candidate list for the election while simultaniously removing some others, the Board election remains on hold. Satisfactorily debugging the root cause of the problems has proven to be impossible. The volunteers working on this investigation were hidered by a temporary outage of the MySQL database during the time they had available for their investigation. While all tests seem to suggest connect.opensuse.org is working satisfactorily at the moment, there is insufficient confidence that it can be trusted for the next Board election. We have wanted to replace connect.opensuse.org for some while, but despite this desire no one has stepped up with a viable alternative. As we need to elect a new board with some urgency, we do not have the luxury of time to continue waiting. Therefore Martin Pluskal will be urgently investigating the use of an alternative service for this particular election, such as SurveyMonkey. As only openSUSE Members can vote, this will likely require using the email addresses in connect.opensuse.org to email members and direct them with an individual, one-time-use, link to the poll. Martin will provide the details once his investigations into suitable tools is complete. Meanwhile you can help by ensuring your email address details are correct in https://connect.opensuse.org Please go to https://connect.opensuse.org and login and then click on your username then "Edit Profile" (or go to https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/profile/$USERNAME/edit/ but replacing $USERNAME with your username) Please then check/edit/correct your Email in your connect profile. Once this election is complete, Tomas Chvatal and anyone else willing to help will be needed to find a suitable replacement for connect.opensuse.org for voting. We require both a voting platform (eg. Helios - https://heliosvoting.org/) and a suitable replacement database and process for approving openSUSE Members. Thank you - The openSUSE Board -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Thank you - The openSUSE Board
Thank you a lot to share, your views and challenges with the community. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, I'm not (yet? ;-) a bord member, but I can provide some updates nevertheless: Am Montag, 6. Februar 2017, 16:15:18 CET schrieb Richard Brown:
long/no response to admin@opensuse.org tickets,
Those waiting for IRC cloaks should be happy now - I requested cloaks for several people (should be in place already), so those tickets are finally closed now. If someone is openSUSE Member and still misses his/her cloak, please mail admin@opensuse.org. Please include a link to your connect.o.o profile page to make our life easier ;-) On the long term, the cloaks should probably be requested by the membership comittee - doing it doesn't need root permissions. (We only need to get the right people on the freenode group contact list so that they can do it.) For the pending OBS repo requests, we decided in the Heroes meeting yesterday to set an ETA of two weeks. Either the requested projects will be created until then, or someone will get "visited" in his office ;-) Pending mirror tickets will get a similar threatment. FYI: at the moment, we have exactly 300 open admin tickets, and the oldest open ticket is 3 years old :-( Needless to say that I don't like this state ;-) I closed quite some tickets since joining the Heroes team (including lots of low-hanging fruits like the IRC cloaks and "add my blog on planet" requests. Those are easy and quick to fix, but quite annoying for the affected people). Unfortunately I don't have time and permission to do everything ;-) (and no, this is not meant as "give me more permissions" - I'm already busy enough ;-)
now issues with news.opensuse.org.
I have news from Provo: news.opensuse.org was updated to the latest WordPress two hours ago :-) This should prevent the attacks we've seen, but it's still WordPress ;-) and therefore IMHO insecure by definition (replacing it is another thing on our TODO list)
In the last few days there has been an uptick in the urgency in which these concerns are being addressed. Given this, the Board decided in todays meeting to take no immediate action, but to have an extraordinary Board meeting at 1500 CEST next Monday 13th Feb to review the situation and discuss next steps.
Feel free to kick any admin who let tickets bitrot ;-) (and make sure to take a video of it *g*) No exceptions, so you are even allowed to kick me if I ever let a ticket bitrot ;-)
Once this election is complete, Tomas Chvatal and anyone else willing to help will be needed to find a suitable replacement for connect.opensuse.org for voting. We require both a voting platform (eg. Helios - https://heliosvoting.org/) and a suitable replacement database and process for approving openSUSE Members.
Approving Members is only part of connect's job. We should also keep the user profiles, groups, friendship etc. [1]. I'd even keep polls, but obviously we should repair them ;-) Disclaimer: I never looked at the code, so I don't know how hard a) updating to a newer elgg version or b) switching to something different would be. Regards, Christian Boltz [1] especially for people like me who refuse to create a facebook account ;-) -- The tone of my answers is directly related to my annoyance factor. [Robert Schweikert in opensuse-project] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Christian Boltz wrote:
FYI: at the moment, we have exactly 300 open admin tickets, and the oldest open ticket is 3 years old :-( Needless to say that I don't like this state ;-)
Do those 300 include all the spam? Initially I closed some of those, but it was suggested I also delete the auto-created account, which my access doesn't permit.
Christian Boltz
[1] especially for people like me who refuse to create a facebook account ;-)
You've got my vote. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (1.0°C) http://www.cloudsuisse.com/ - your owncloud, hosted in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2017, 08:44:03 CET schrieb Per Jessen:
Christian Boltz wrote:
FYI: at the moment, we have exactly 300 open admin tickets, and the oldest open ticket is 3 years old :-( Needless to say that I don't like this state ;-)
Do those 300 include all the spam? Initially I closed some of those, but it was suggested I also delete the auto-created account, which my access doesn't permit.
Luckily we have progress.o.o nearly spam-free currently, so these 300 do not include spam (or I overlooked it). Actually we were able to close 3 tickets, so we are down to 297 :-) The problem with closing spam as "Rejected" or "Closed" is that it generates a mail to the (probably faked) sender. Therefore please use the "Delete" link in the top-right corner of the ticket to get rid of the spam without sending any mails. Blocking or deleting the spammer's account is "nice to have" IMHO since those users don't really disturb us, so in most cases deleting the spam ticket is enough. If a sender address is repeatedly used to send spam (happened only once in the last months IIRC), ping someone with more permissions (for example Theo) to get that sender blocked. Regards, Christian Boltz -- Yes, basil troll, the opensuse release manager, long time kde developer, and member of the opensuse board is not a linux person, he doesnt understand linux like you, oh, great linux overlord you are, he is just a newbie who doesnt know what he is doing. You are so cute you must poop rainbows. [Druid in opensuse-factory] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Richard On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:15:18 +0100 Richard Brown wrote:
issues with connect.opensuse.org that caused the cancellation of the openSUSE elections
Here we have a problem: the host and services are up and running from an "openSUSE Hero" perspective. There is no - and there will never be a - way that "general" Admins, who take care about the operating system on those machines, will take over the application development/maintenance. This is the *job* of those people who volunteered to maintain this application [1]. Funny to say that the Heroes asked the board (again) during their first meeting[2] what to do with connect.o.o, as this service seems not to be actively maintained any more. I'm a bit sad to see that now the board tries to blame the Heroes for something they have no control over. with kind regards, Lars [1]: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Infrastructure_policy [2]: https://lists.opensuse.org/heroes/2016-12/msg00002.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, I agree with Lars. The second thing is: What is the issue on connect.opensuse.org? Is that a bug or configuration issue? It was looking like a bug. What is the job of the Heroes team then? Miska wanted to get support by Community Members with the issue. After that we didn't hear anything else. Christian and I will join your meeting (as visitors) next week. I hope we can give you a clear view on all then. Best regards, Sarah
Gesendet: Dienstag, 07. Februar 2017 um 19:24 Uhr Von: "Lars Vogdt" <Lars.Vogdt@suse.com> An: opensuse-project@opensuse.org Betreff: Re: [opensuse-project] Board Meeting Minutes - 6 Feb 1500 CEST
Hi Richard
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:15:18 +0100 Richard Brown wrote:
issues with connect.opensuse.org that caused the cancellation of the openSUSE elections
Here we have a problem: the host and services are up and running from an "openSUSE Hero" perspective.
There is no - and there will never be a - way that "general" Admins, who take care about the operating system on those machines, will take over the application development/maintenance. This is the *job* of those people who volunteered to maintain this application [1].
Funny to say that the Heroes asked the board (again) during their first meeting[2] what to do with connect.o.o, as this service seems not to be actively maintained any more. I'm a bit sad to see that now the board tries to blame the Heroes for something they have no control over.
with kind regards, Lars
[1]: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Infrastructure_policy [2]: https://lists.opensuse.org/heroes/2016-12/msg00002.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 7 February 2017 at 19:24, Lars Vogdt <Lars.Vogdt@suse.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 16:15:18 +0100 Richard Brown wrote:
issues with connect.opensuse.org that caused the cancellation of the openSUSE elections
Here we have a problem: the host and services are up and running from an "openSUSE Hero" perspective.
There is no - and there will never be a - way that "general" Admins, who take care about the operating system on those machines, will take over the application development/maintenance. This is the *job* of those people who volunteered to maintain this application [1].
Funny to say that the Heroes asked the board (again) during their first meeting[2] what to do with connect.o.o, as this service seems not to be actively maintained any more. I'm a bit sad to see that now the board tries to blame the Heroes for something they have no control over.
with kind regards, Lars
The Board chose its words carefully in the minutes, but allow me to say the following explicitly - we do not blame the openSUSE Heroes for the current situation. By 'openSUSE Heroes' I refer to both those volunteers who are not employees by SUSE, and those who are. We greatly appreciate all of the work they do, and do not feel the current situation reflects badly on the work they've been doing. But regardless of that excellent work, the status quo is not acceptable. In the case of connect.o.o, the Heroes threat of shutting down the Projects members database & voting platform is unacceptable given it is a key part of the Projects infrastructure - the Project as it is currently founded cannot function without it, just as it couldn't function without OBS. Who created the server in the past, who was responsible, is immaterial, the server exists, the project needs it, and we need to find a solution to it. And we need that solution by 3 weeks ago because we should have a new Board by now. It is from this position we are discussing the situation with SUSE Management, in the hope that they can provide help & resources to alter that status quo, regarding connect and all of the other infrastructure problems we are currently facing. with kind regards, Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Hey, On 08.02.2017 15:54, Richard Brown wrote:
It is from this position we are discussing the situation with SUSE Management, in the hope that they can provide help & resources to alter that status quo, regarding connect and all of the other infrastructure problems we are currently facing.
So paid SUSE employees to the rescue. I must say I'm rather disappointed that this is the only solution that we as a community can come up with after ignoring this situation for years... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On 8 February 2017 at 16:40, Henne Vogelsang <hvogel@opensuse.org> wrote:
Hey,
On 08.02.2017 15:54, Richard Brown wrote:
It is from this position we are discussing the situation with SUSE Management, in the hope that they can provide help & resources to alter that status quo, regarding connect and all of the other infrastructure problems we are currently facing.
So paid SUSE employees to the rescue. I must say I'm rather disappointed that this is the only solution that we as a community can come up with after ignoring this situation for years...
With the exception of connect.opensuse.org, the vast majority of the burning infrastructure issues are with infrastructure which community volunteers are in no position to help. It's also worth noting that connect was originally set up by SUSE employees, introduced to the Project as a key part of infrastructure, and then circumstances within SUSE changed leading to connect becoming somewhat of an orphan. I think I can be justified in saying that it's handover from a SUSE-administered service to a community-administered one was not handled correctly (or not handled at all, depending on your point of view). I do not think you can justifiably say that the community 'ignored' the situation, nor do I agree with your implication that the community needed to be the only one owning the problem. Regardless, we have more on our plate when it comes to openSUSE than just connect.o.o. The wiki problems from last year remain unresolved. news.opensuse.org was hacked at the weekend. Both remain fully in the Micro Focus sphere of control, despite a long time of lobbying to change that. This means currently SUSE employees are also near powerless to help, and involving community admins is even more unfeasible. The outstanding issues regarding download performance and mirrors might be something our community Heroes can deal with, but the training, access granting and onboarding for such systems cannot be expected to happen overnight. Tickets reporting these problems are many months old, long before the openSUSE Heroes team was even announced. Meanwhile SUSE employees have the knowledge, expertise, and access as they were the ones who set up such core services in the first place. The best way through this mess is one that involves contributions from both the community AND SUSE. That's what we work towards, but it requires enablement, effort and remedial work from those who currently control the reigns and who have held those responsibilities for years. If that disappoints you, too bad. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Christian Boltz -
Henne Vogelsang -
Lars Vogdt -
Per Jessen -
Richard Brown -
Sarah Julia Kriesch