[opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: Mailinglist changes going forward
On 29/05/18 03:16, John Andersen wrote:
On 05/28/2018 08:28 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
What is left for the main list? Are you saying it should be a social group?
As I've mentioned on another thread, the board would love to kill this list completely, as well as all the others. The Board!!! Not the developers, not the users, but the board.
Well you could probably extrapolate that to at least some openSUSE Members as well, as they vote for the board and I personally and I believe others mentioned cleaning up some mailing lists as something we would like to see. So people appointed me to the board knowing I wanted to make changes to mailing lists.
Users are expected to join 20 mailing lists, and know exactly which of those they dare post an issue upon, Its Not sufficient to know which department to file your complaint with, you must also know the desk, and which in-basket to use.
The introduction of opensuse-support@ is meant to make it clear where all support issues can be emailed.
I admit I grow weary of long running wandering threads, as people devolve into discussing the minutia of side issues, often leaving the original poster hanging in suspense. Also annoying are the long copy-pastes of pointless console output that help nobody. But I delete the threads and move on.
Mostly what gets posted here are user-to-user questions. Nobody here is under the slightest delusion that any developers participate here. Just other users that may have seen a similar issue.
In the past when I first joined this list there was plenty of user-to-developer questions posted here, but over time many developers (including several on the board) got sick of the noise on this list and either unsubscribed or created mail filters to /dev/null
The hope with the new opensuse-support mailing list is that we can keep it more ontopic and as such many of the developers that are willing to offer support but left this list as it was a waste of there time will return to the new list and offer support there.
Bug Reports? chuckle.... The MAJORITY of Bug reports are closed two years later when that release falls out of maintenance, or marked as a duplicate of another bug, which is eventually marked as won't fix two years later.
When such bugs are closed it is made clear that you can reopen them against a newer version if the issue persists, this change is also more related to the mail on opensuse-factory@ rather then opensuse@ where we see lots of emails along the lines of ABC broke in the latest snapshot
There seems nowhere one can ask a question of other users, without invoking the wrath of the board, or the swift admonition to go join another mailing list and post your problem there.
Yes if you are asking "support" questions in the very broad term of support on the opensuse-support@ mailing list no one will get grumpy with you, if you want to ask other users how to cook fish or where to go on holiday etc opensuse-offtopic@ is a much better place.
I'm thinking the Forum would be a better place. It is for Manjaro, but I'm not so sure it is for Opensuse.
openSUSE has excellent forums to the point where the board considered just moving all support questions to there rather then mailing lists, but as we know some people prefer mailing lists we decided against that.
On 05/29/2018 01:26 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
On 05/28/2018 08:28 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
As I've mentioned on another thread, the board would love to kill this list completely, as well as all the others. The Board!!! Not the developers, not the users, but the board.
Come on, Anton. This is a Flame and is a Derogatory Personal Attack, completely against openSUSE's Policy and Guiding Principles.
... and, a perfect example of why people are tired of the mess on the openSUSE Mailing Lists.
Well you could probably extrapolate that to at least some openSUSE Members as well, as they vote for the board and I personally and I believe others mentioned cleaning up some mailing lists as something we would like to see. So people appointed me to the board knowing I wanted to make changes to mailing lists.
Exactly true. In fact, I have been lurking and following this problem since long before the election, and I kept track. The majority of Users and the Community have been asking for something to be done for a long, long time, now.
I, too, ran on this promise. If I would have made it to the Board, this would still be going ahead as it is now. Most people I heard from asked for this.
... including several here, who are now complaining that the Board is trying to do what they asked for.
Those who are complaining had the opportunity to run for the Board, just as I did, and could have voted in people who represent what they wanted to see.
That they did not basically mitigates their right to complain afterwards, IMHO.
The introduction of opensuse-support@ is meant to make it clear where all support issues can be emailed.
Yes, much clearer and less prone to argument about what belongs on that list.
openSUSE has excellent forums to the point where the board considered just moving all support questions to there rather then mailing lists, but as we know some people prefer mailing lists we decided against that.
Indeed. The best Forums on the net, in my NOT so humble opinion.
On 05/29/2018 02:27 PM, Fraser_Bell wrote:
On 05/29/2018 01:26 AM, Simon Lees wrote:
On 05/28/2018 08:28 AM, Anton Aylward wrote:
As I've mentioned on another thread, the board would love to kill this list completely, as well as all the others. The Board!!! Not the developers, not the users, but the board.
Come on, Anton. This is a Flame and is a Derogatory Personal Attack, completely against openSUSE's Policy and Guiding Principles.
... and, a perfect example of why people are tired of the mess on the openSUSE Mailing Lists.
Anton, I am very sorry for this. I did not notice that the quote was inappropriately attributed to you.
I understand it is from someone else.
Forgive me.
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Fraser_Bell -
Simon Lees