[opensuse-project] Disappointed in last Weekly news.
After looking though the weekly news, I do have to say that I am disappointed that no status, comments, etc have been given on the 'KDE as default' issue. This after all the number one openfate item and the lack of updates from the team is concerning to say the least. There is a clear and decisive trend to the issue from the community but it seems the ones that have final say are hoping if nothing is said that the issue will disappear. Dean -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-08-15 at 15:36 -0600, Dean Hilkewich wrote:
After looking though the weekly news, I do have to say that I am disappointed that no status, comments, etc have been given on the 'KDE as default' issue. This after all the number one openfate item and the lack of updates from the team is concerning to say the least. There is a clear and decisive trend to the issue from the community but it seems the ones that have final say are hoping if nothing is said that the issue will disappear.
Dean
Dean, You are very much overexpecting and looking for answers too quickly. First of all, Weekly news is written by the community. It is not some "official" publication from Novell. So, if you're upset that community didn't report anything on the debate, basically, you're upset with yourself because you are part of the same community that writes the Weekly News and you were free to submit an article if you felt it was relevant to the debate. Second of all, let's look at the date here. It is August 15th, middle of the month. This debate started about two weeks ago (give or take a day or so.) Slow down, kid! Give the decision-makers a chance to digest what has been said on both sides of the debate and come up with a sane decision. I mean, seriously! 11.2 isn't coming out until November. The huge amount of mail pumped into the several threads on this subject have slowed many of us down in attempting to read what has been said. Third of all, a decision will be coming soon enough. I know it is being actively looked at. But baseless accusations such as "hoping that the issue will disappear" is precisely what slows down the decision-making process. This debate has had many good points made on both sides, but it has also been fraught with conjecture, wild assumptions, and baseless accusations that have detracted from the main issue itself. How you managed to interpret a debate that has only started 2 weeks ago into "shh, let's hope people forget about it" is beyond me and is a disservice to the very proposal that sparked this debate. This topic is foremost in many people's minds and NO ONE is attempting to avoid the issue. -- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member GNOME-A11y Team Member www.bryen.com (Personal Blog) www.planet-a11y.net (Feed aggregator of the Accessibility Community) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Bryen M Yunashko wrote:
Dean,
You are very much overexpecting and looking for answers too quickly.
First of all, Weekly news is written by the community. It is not some "official" publication from Novell. So, if you're upset that community didn't report anything on the debate, basically, you're upset with yourself because you are part of the same community that writes the Weekly News and you were free to submit an article if you felt it was relevant to the debate.
Never said it was put out by Novell, nor do I expect Novell to publish in the newsletter. I do however expect status updates on pressing issues from an official body.
Second of all, let's look at the date here. It is August 15th, middle of the month. This debate started about two weeks ago (give or take a day or so.) Slow down, kid! Give the decision-makers a chance to digest what has been said on both sides of the debate and come up with a sane decision. I mean, seriously! 11.2 isn't coming out until November. The huge amount of mail pumped into the several threads on this subject have slowed many of us down in attempting to read what has been said.
Great update. Now would that have been so hard to put into the newsletter?
Third of all, a decision will be coming soon enough. I know it is being actively looked at. But baseless accusations such as "hoping that the issue will disappear" is precisely what slows down the decision-making process. This debate has had many good points made on both sides, but it has also been fraught with conjecture, wild assumptions, and baseless accusations that have detracted from the main issue itself. How you managed to interpret a debate that has only started 2 weeks ago into "shh, let's hope people forget about it" is beyond me and is a disservice to the very proposal that sparked this debate. This topic is foremost in many people's minds and NO ONE is attempting to avoid the issue.
I wouldn't say it's baseless as features are closed on openFATE all the time because they are deemed not important enough and there has been literally thousands of bugzilla report that have been put off into never neverland and never brought through to the next release. They are killed with reasons like "not enough time" or "too late in development cycle" instead of being brought forth to the next release. Dean -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2009-08-15 at 16:13 -0600, Dean Hilkewich wrote:
Bryen M Yunashko wrote:
Dean,
You are very much overexpecting and looking for answers too quickly.
First of all, Weekly news is written by the community. It is not some "official" publication from Novell. So, if you're upset that community didn't report anything on the debate, basically, you're upset with yourself because you are part of the same community that writes the Weekly News and you were free to submit an article if you felt it was relevant to the debate.
Never said it was put out by Novell, nor do I expect Novell to publish in the newsletter. I do however expect status updates on pressing issues from an official body.
Again, it has only been a short period of time since the debate started, and only a few days since the last relevant comment on any of the several threads. This is not the only item on people's plates and you're expecting a rush to drop everything else to put up a status report when really, there's nothing to report at this time. You made a direct accusation that people were hoping to sweep this under the rug by being silent, even though its only been a few days. That was an unreasonable expectation short and simple.
Second of all, let's look at the date here. It is August 15th, middle of the month. This debate started about two weeks ago (give or take a day or so.) Slow down, kid! Give the decision-makers a chance to digest what has been said on both sides of the debate and come up with a sane decision. I mean, seriously! 11.2 isn't coming out until November. The huge amount of mail pumped into the several threads on this subject have slowed many of us down in attempting to read what has been said.
Great update. Now would that have been so hard to put into the newsletter?
Yeah it would. Because what I have said is not an official update and there IS no status to update. The position remains the same as when Michael Loeffler, the decision-maker, put out an email on this list saying he would make a decision by mid-August (and looking at my calendar, it's still mid-August.) I did not offer up a status update. I merely stated what is obvious to everyone else in the message sent out by Michael. He and others are evaluating and will get back to us. That's all.
Third of all, a decision will be coming soon enough. I know it is being actively looked at. But baseless accusations such as "hoping that the issue will disappear" is precisely what slows down the decision-making process. This debate has had many good points made on both sides, but it has also been fraught with conjecture, wild assumptions, and baseless accusations that have detracted from the main issue itself. How you managed to interpret a debate that has only started 2 weeks ago into "shh, let's hope people forget about it" is beyond me and is a disservice to the very proposal that sparked this debate. This topic is foremost in many people's minds and NO ONE is attempting to avoid the issue.
I wouldn't say it's baseless as features are closed on openFATE all the time because they are deemed not important enough and there has been literally thousands of bugzilla report that have been put off into never neverland and never brought through to the next release. They are killed with reasons like "not enough time" or "too late in development cycle" instead of being brought forth to the next release.
That's an unfortunate circumstance. There are only limited resources and there are expectations made by all of us upon those resources. Time is not infinite, nor is manpower infinite. Would I like to see better explanations of why things are "WONTFIX"ed? You betcha. I think there needs to be a far better level of accountability by decision makers. I'm on your side on that one. But I also know that it isn't through a callous disregard but rather though an immense amount of juggling of time and functions by a rather small group of people. I also happen to know that we are not the only project out there stricken with this dilemma, as even larger projects out there are having bug reports ignored for extremely long periods of time with no explanation. The question is, how do we, as a community, step up to take up the slack where Novell's personnel leaves off? How do we become truly self-reliant and not totally dependent upon those resources? Those are not easy answers to solve because there aren't many of us in the community who have the time and skillset to do that. It's something I'd surely like to see addressed, but at this time, I don't see an immediate solution to that problem.
Dean
-- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member GNOME-A11y Team Member www.bryen.com (Personal Blog) www.planet-a11y.net (Feed aggregator of the Accessibility Community) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dean, Dean Hilkewich wrote:
Bryen M Yunashko wrote:
Dean,
You are very much overexpecting and looking for answers too quickly.
First of all, Weekly news is written by the community. It is not some "official" publication from Novell. So, if you're upset that community didn't report anything on the debate, basically, you're upset with yourself because you are part of the same community that writes the Weekly News and you were free to submit an article if you felt it was relevant to the debate.
Never said it was put out by Novell, nor do I expect Novell to publish in the newsletter. I do however expect status updates on pressing issues from an official body.
Basically, your opinions and suggestions on Weekly News are always appreciated. However, I'd like to explain the concepts of Weekly News and how the articles are collected. One of our most important concepts is, "In any large community there will often be opposing views and our Newsletter's role is to report on these, rather than to judge them" as mentioned in "OpenSUSE Weekly News/Guidelines", that is, being as neutral as possible. http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Weekly_News/Guidelines Our prior and main news sources are Planet SUSE and lizards.o.o. We also pick up items from mailing lists and forums as needed, but you know, there are so many posts and entries on whole lists and forums so that we can't follow all of them in detail, and in addition, most of the posts on lists are just 'pieces of discussion'. Of cource we know there's a discussion on 'default desktop for openSUSE' which is going on and have already introduced the related blog entry by Zonker in issue 82. http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Weekly_News/82#Planet_SUSE However, as far as I know, there's no summary for this discussion ATM yet and I understand the status is 'waiting for the post by Michael'. If you find some blog entries or online articles in which this discussion is well-summarized and - hopefully - neutrally explained, or simply you've wrote a blog entry for that by yourself, please tell us. We always welcome such notifications. ;-) Note, above are just my point of view and not the 'official statement by Weekly News Team'. I hope you will tune in to Weekly News Team and help improving OUR newsletter. ;-) Best, - -- _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto - openSUSE Member - Japan _/_/ _/_/ Marketing/Weekly News/openFATE Screening Team _/_/ _/_/ mail: helios_reds_at_gmx.net / irc: HeliosReds _/_/ _/_/ http://blog.geeko.jp/author/heliosreds _/_/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqHckYACgkQXnHIfHE6+z0ZXwCfWCjMZL+UTbd4Xzq/3Me2IcKi rqoAoIlY6I8SY2/R7cNlgugzPIqdWMT+ =U04y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
If you find some blog entries or online articles in which this discussion is well-summarized and - hopefully - neutrally explained, or simply you've wrote a blog entry for that by yourself, please tell us. We always welcome such notifications. ;-)
Hello, i read this the other day, i think it's a well explained article on this subject : A default desktop for openSUSE? http://lwn.net/Articles/344258/ Fabrice -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 15 August 2009 23:36:26 Dean Hilkewich wrote:
After looking though the weekly news, I do have to say that I am disappointed that no status, comments, etc have been given on the 'KDE as default' issue. This after all the number one openfate item and the lack of updates from the team is concerning to say the least. There is a clear and decisive trend to the issue from the community but it seems the ones that have final say are hoping if nothing is said that the issue will disappear.
Michael Löffler said on this list that he will consult with the board and make a decision by mid of August. He's offline for the weekend and I guess we'll hear soon from him, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Andreas Jaeger<aj@novell.com> wrote:
On Saturday 15 August 2009 23:36:26 Dean Hilkewich wrote:
After looking though the weekly news, I do have to say that I am disappointed that no status, comments, etc have been given on the 'KDE as default' issue. This after all the number one openfate item and the lack of updates from the team is concerning to say the least. There is a clear and decisive trend to the issue from the community but it seems the ones that have final say are hoping if nothing is said that the issue will disappear.
Regardless of which one is first or the default the new user is going to choose the one closest to the Windows desktop and the ease of use. The reason Ubuntu is high in use is it is close to a windows desktop and the new user does not have to have a high learning phase to use the operating system when changing over. Yes, Ubuntu uses GNOME but it is modified but they also offer Kbuntu for people wanting a KDE desktop without having to resort to all types of modifications to the base operating system. Until Linux joins forces and creates 1 major system without distros creating in house fighting amongst Linux developers it will remain as is. As much as I do not like saying this I am growing tired of the forever and ever my desktop is better than yours or my distro is better than theirs. People read this on the internet and I do see posts about this very subject. Just like the argument about using proprietary on Linux. Well, people do like to use programs and hardware they are use to or want and not just what a developer says. Instead of arguing about desktops why not join forces and create the best desktop ever from the both? Until this subject was brought up I actually never noticed what desktop was first or even if there was a default when installing openSUSE. I also have more than 1 computer so I use all 3 desktops so I can compare all and work on each to better openSUSE. They all have their great areas and bad areas but they all work. What ever decision is made I will still support openSUSE and I am quite sure most of you will also.
Michael Löffler said on this list that he will consult with the board and make a decision by mid of August. He's offline for the weekend and I guess we'll hear soon from him,
Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
-- PeterPac InNetInvestigations-Forensic SLED/openSUSE -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Bryen M Yunashko -
Dean Hilkewich -
Fabrice -
member greenarrow1 -
Satoru Matsumoto