[opensuse-project] To use or not to use "TM"
Hi, Every time I read "openSUSE TM" (on t-shirts, and everywhere where we use the logo), I start crying. Do we really have to put the "TM" symbol? It makes the whole thing look ugly, and, as far as I know, it is not necessary to use it (see [1], [2], and more if you search on the web). Thanks, Vincent [1] http://www.secureyourtrademark.com/2007/11/trademark-registration-symbols.ht... [2] http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legally_necessary_to_constantly_use_the_trad... -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2010-09-21 at 21:33 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Every time I read "openSUSE TM" (on t-shirts, and everywhere where we use the logo), I start crying. Do we really have to put the "TM" symbol? It makes the whole thing look ugly, and, as far as I know, it is not necessary to use it (see [1], [2], and more if you search on the web).
Thanks,
Vincent
[1] http://www.secureyourtrademark.com/2007/11/trademark-registration-symbols.ht... [2] http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legally_necessary_to_constantly_use_the_trad...
-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
Definitely something for the board to get clarification on and get back to you about. I'm not aware of any instance in which we, the Board, ever required someone to use a TM mark, but let's just clarify through the proper channels for sure that it is okay. Thanks for bringing it up, Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 15:56, Bryen M. Yunashko <suserocks@bryen.com> wrote:
appears_repeatedly_in_an_article_or_is_using_the_symbol_once_at_the_beginning_of_the_article_enough
-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
Definitely something for the board to get clarification on and get back to you about. I'm not aware of any instance in which we, the Board, ever required someone to use a TM mark, but let's just clarify through the proper channels for sure that it is okay.
Isn't openSUSE (and SUSE) a registered trademark (where?) So shouldn't it be anyways the (R) mark and not TM? In this day and age trademarks need to be protected or else the rights to them will no longer be controlled. There's a distinction between a fork/unrelated project trying to use the SUSE names, perhaps to imply endorsement, and the use of the names for e.g. to indicate support for the project or compatibility with it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 21 septembre 2010, à 16:39 -0400, Andrew Joakimsen a écrit :
In this day and age trademarks need to be protected or else the rights to them will no longer be controlled.
Sure. That doesn't mean we have to use the trademark symbols everywhere, though. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Moin, cc'ing Kelley and Dave who are working at Corporate Marketing at Novell - the trademark owner. Kelley, Dave can you tell us if the "TM" is always necessary for openSUSE logo usage ? Thanks Michael On Tuesday 21 September 2010 21:33:32 Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Every time I read "openSUSE TM" (on t-shirts, and everywhere where we use the logo), I start crying. Do we really have to put the "TM" symbol? It makes the whole thing look ugly, and, as far as I know, it is not necessary to use it (see [1], [2], and more if you search on the web).
Thanks,
Vincent
[1] http://www.secureyourtrademark.com/2007/11/trademark-registration-symbols. html [2] http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_legally_necessary_to_constantly_use_the_tr ademark_symbol_if_the_same_trademark_appears_repeatedly_in_an_article_or_is _using_the_symbol_once_at_the_beginning_of_the_article_enough
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Sep 21, 10 21:33:32 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Every time I read "openSUSE TM" (on t-shirts, and everywhere where we use the logo), I start crying.
Me too, but different reasons. TM is not only not required, it is outdated since 2007. It is a registered trademark by now and thus should be denoted with an R in a circle. Still, a (TM) is better than nothing. Both, The stylized gecko image with with the text openSUSE below, and the brand name openSUSE alone are registered trademarks today.
Do we really have to put the "TM" symbol?
The use of an (R) is optional from a legal perspective, no law forces us to do so. But, I'd advocate to keep them, if you ask me. One simple reason: If 'openSUSE' would ever become a general catch phrase, e.g. like in "hey, I just built my own openSUSE appliance, using almost only fedora packages" then the name would no longer be specific to the openSUSE 11.x releases, that *we* do. This would end our trademark protection then. We (um, Novell Legal actually) spent money to go from TM to R, so we should try to keep up the trademark protection for a while. Certainly a topic the board should discuss and document in the trademark guidelines. I'd suggest to make the (R)'s decently small, e.g. diameter same as line width used in the letters, if that is still recognizable. And if you find 'openSUSE' several time on the T-Shirt, having the (R) once should be sufficient. An alternative to the (R) is the sentence 'openSUSE is a registered trademark of Novell, Inc.' - I certainly would not want to have that on my T-Shirts. (We do that in our documentation. Once, at the front or back.) IANAL. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "You are trying to use packages from project 'openSUSE:11.3'. Note that malicious packages can compromise your system." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Le mercredi 22 septembre 2010, à 18:02 +0200, Juergen Weigert a écrit :
On Sep 21, 10 21:33:32 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi,
Every time I read "openSUSE TM" (on t-shirts, and everywhere where we use the logo), I start crying.
Me too, but different reasons. TM is not only not required, it is outdated since 2007. It is a registered trademark by now and thus should be denoted with an R in a circle. Still, a (TM) is better than nothing.
Ah, thanks, I was wondering about this too :-) [...]
The use of an (R) is optional from a legal perspective, no law forces us to do so. But, I'd advocate to keep them, if you ask me. One simple reason: If 'openSUSE' would ever become a general catch phrase, e.g. like in "hey, I just built my own openSUSE appliance, using almost only fedora packages" then the name would no longer be specific to the openSUSE 11.x releases, that *we* do. This would end our trademark protection then.
But we can still protect the trademark without the (R), can't we? It's just a matter of contacting the people who abuse it -- in the very same way we'd do if it had the (R). Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Andrew Joakimsen -
Bryen M. Yunashko -
Juergen Weigert -
Michael Loeffler -
Vincent Untz