18 Jun
2019
18 Jun
'19
7:20 a.m.
Hi,
Today [through my usual unplanned wiki ride] I landed on this page
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Strategy from the Novell era (2010) and
it was a really interesting read, mainly the SWOT analysis.
Surprisingly, (or not) a lot of it is still relevant today, even tho
on the other hand, a lot happened in the tech world.
How *and if* the community demography itself has changed? what
challenges do we face today? and where are we heading next? I think
this is a good time to look back again and analyze the outcome of the
last decade and maybe how other distros did compared to openSUSE
(specifically Fedora and Arch)
Looking at the last few years, what's your view? would be cool to hear
some opinions of people who did the last round.
Imad
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18 Jun
18 Jun
7:58 a.m.
On wto, cze 18, 2019 at 1:20 PM, Imad Aldoj
<zerocon.opensource(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
Today [through my usual unplanned wiki ride] I landed on this page
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Strategy from the Novell era (2010) and
it was a really interesting read, mainly the SWOT analysis.
Surprisingly, (or not) a lot of it is still relevant today, even tho
on the other hand, a lot happened in the tech world.
How *and if* the community demography itself has changed? what
challenges do we face today? and where are we heading next? I think
this is a good time to look back again and analyze the outcome of the
last decade and maybe how other distros did compared to openSUSE
(specifically Fedora and Arch)
Looking at the last few years, what's your view? would be cool to hear
some opinions of people who did the last round.
I like that a bunch of points in that strategy is not aligned with the
community, goes to show how much both industry and openSUSE have
changed, and
haven't changed at the same time.
I do find "Seamless integration and compatibility with other operating
systems
and tools" a little bit interesting, considering YaST, OBS etc. as if
we expect
others to give, but not us :P
And then in "Understand the industry" page, Windows, macOS, Ubuntu,
Fedora and
Debian are recognized as competition, which defeats the "Seamless
integration
and compatibility with other operating systems and tools" point's
purpose?
"openSUSE does not" section also seems a little bit outdated, there are
a few
points where we have extended the reach of the distribution where we
"shouldn't
have", it also doesn't align with "openSUSE is what you make it" ;)
In community statement, it took us quite a long time to get to
"Establish the
openSUSE Foundation" goal.
As for SWOT analysis, I like that QA is labeled as weakness, when it's
our main
marketing point nowadays. In general the page feels a little anti
corporate for
a distribution sponsored by corporations, and really outdated in
general.
You know what, let's just rewrite everything, it's the perfect time
before
foundation stuff again...
LCP [Stasiek]
https://lcp.world
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8:19 a.m.
Yeah I must agree, especially as Simon mentioned that the strategy at
the time was aligned with the creation of the foundation but never
came out so it seems like a perfect time to bring it to light again.
Imad
On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 3:06 PM Stasiek Michalski <hellcp(a)opensuse.org> wrote:
On wto, cze 18, 2019 at 1:20 PM, Imad Aldoj
<zerocon.opensource(a)gmail.com> wrote:
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Hi,
Today [through my usual unplanned wiki ride] I landed on this page
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Strategy from the Novell era (2010) and
it was a really interesting read, mainly the SWOT analysis.
Surprisingly, (or not) a lot of it is still relevant today, even tho
on the other hand, a lot happened in the tech world.
How *and if* the community demography itself has changed? what
challenges do we face today? and where are we heading next? I think
this is a good time to look back again and analyze the outcome of the
last decade and maybe how other distros did compared to openSUSE
(specifically Fedora and Arch)
Looking at the last few years, what's your view? would be cool to hear
some opinions of people who did the last round.
I like that a bunch of points in that strategy is not aligned with the
community, goes to show how much both industry and openSUSE have
changed, and
haven't changed at the same time.
I do find "Seamless integration and compatibility with other operating
systems
and tools" a little bit interesting, considering YaST, OBS etc. as if
we expect
others to give, but not us :P
And then in "Understand the industry" page, Windows, macOS, Ubuntu,
Fedora and
Debian are recognized as competition, which defeats the "Seamless
integration
and compatibility with other operating systems and tools" point's
purpose?
"openSUSE does not" section also seems a little bit outdated, there are
a few
points where we have extended the reach of the distribution where we
"shouldn't
have", it also doesn't align with "openSUSE is what you make it" ;)
In community statement, it took us quite a long time to get to
"Establish the
openSUSE Foundation" goal.
As for SWOT analysis, I like that QA is labeled as weakness, when it's
our main
marketing point nowadays. In general the page feels a little anti
corporate for
a distribution sponsored by corporations, and really outdated in
general.
You know what, let's just rewrite everything, it's the perfect time
before
foundation stuff again...
LCP [Stasiek]
https://lcp.world
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3:33 p.m.
On wto, cze 18, 2019 at 2:19 PM, Imad Aldoj
<zerocon.opensource(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah I must agree, especially as Simon mentioned that
the strategy at
the time was aligned with the creation of the foundation but never
came out so it seems like a perfect time to bring it to light again.
So apart from name and logo votes, we also will need surveys for
contributors
and users (two separate surveys that is), to see the target audience,
the
contributor goals, the userbase preferences etc etc. That would
certainly help
inform changes in websites, marketing, artwork, branding and other
stuff that
is user facing with distributions and beyond. I am hoping we would run
those
surveys for long enough, so we can also afford being very specific in
the
questions themselves, considering the recent contributions into more UX
areas
of mine as well as Kubic/containers/MicroOS experiences and goals
(obviously
not discarding older software/goals, but new areas weren't really
commented
nearly enough to get a feeling of how valuable they are overall to
existing or
emerging community). I guess it's more of my deep interest in community
needs.
I would also be interested in multi-language answers, from communities
outside
of English speakers, just to see how the overview of community
engagement and
support looks from country to country, from language to language. If
anybody is
willing to help with translations there, it would be pretty cool,
suggesting
questions is also valuable, because I am not aware of everything that
happens
within the community, so your input is important!
There are voices from within the user base that marketing for sysadmins
ignores
the longstanding commitment of openSUSE to desktop, which is pretty
fair,
considering the technologies within the openSUSE have been focused
around
simplifying typically cli/config-editing work into something easily
understandable by grandparents ;D
LCP [Stasiek]
https://lcp.world
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8:27 p.m.
On 19/06/2019 05:03, Stasiek Michalski wrote:
On wto, cze 18, 2019 at 2:19 PM, Imad Aldoj
<zerocon.opensource(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I like this idea, particularly in the context of working out what our
website content (tying into the other thread) and marketing should look
like and target. There is certainly plenty of scope for improvement in
these areas.
At the same time I think this can and should be done independently of
the foundation discussion, the main reason for this is that with the
type of foundation we are looking to setup the goal / charter that is
set for the foundation can never be changed. As such whatever it is
needs to be broad enough to cover everything the project is doing now
and may want to do into the future or alternatively it needs to be a
very vague limited statement that leaves the project lots of room to
move in many directions. Currently the board has been working from the
latter, and the current version that we will put for discussion on this
list very soon looks something like this.
"The openSUSE Foundation is a not for profit organisation that believes
in empowering its Contributors so that the user community can benefit
from the best, most-sustainable and most-innovative open source
software. To achieve this, most of the daily work is performed by the
Foundation's Contributors. Nonetheless, certain bodies or committees
will be in charge of work when the decision-taking requires
extraordinary decisions, litigation, conflict resolution, funding,
treasury, strategic technical decisions, strategic technical guidance,
and general guidance on orientations.
In principle, the processes, discussions and decisions of openSUSE
Foundation, of its Committees, of its Board and of its Officers are
public, and decisions are taken in a rational and transparent manner."
If you think that can be improved lets discuss that in the Foundation
thread when it appears likely very soon.
As far as a vision strategy for the next few years this is much harder,
as there is no one in the project who can tell anyone else what they
should or shouldn't work on beyond rules and guidelines that teams have
created to make there life simpler, think packaging guidelines,
guidelines on what should go onto each mailing list etc. As such I don't
think surveying contributors then merging there results together to
create a strategy is the best idea, instead we could just ask all our
contributors / teams what there goals visions and strategy is for the
future and collate them into one place. But even then we are a project
of many many different facets and products and the strategy for some
things may completely contradict others so i'm not sure doing this on a
project wide scale makes huge sense, for example the openqa, obs and
yast teams may have completely different visions for what they want to
do into the future. Looking at the distro's we intentionally have 2 very
different distro's with very different aims goals and users as such as a
developer my plans for tumbleweed into the future are completely
different to my plans for leap. So i'm not sure if this idea would lead
to something meaningful if we tried to do it project wide.
Cheers
--
Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net
Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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Yeah I must agree, especially as Simon mentioned
that the strategy at
the time was aligned with the creation of the foundation but never
came out so it seems like a perfect time to bring it to light again.
So apart from name and logo votes, we also will need surveys for
contributors
and users (two separate surveys that is), to see the target audience, the
contributor goals, the userbase preferences etc etc. That would
certainly help
inform changes in websites, marketing, artwork, branding and other stuff
that
is user facing with distributions and beyond. I am hoping we would run
those
surveys for long enough, so we can also afford being very specific in the
questions themselves, considering the recent contributions into more UX
areas
of mine as well as Kubic/containers/MicroOS experiences and goals
(obviously
not discarding older software/goals, but new areas weren't really commented
nearly enough to get a feeling of how valuable they are overall to
existing or
emerging community). I guess it's more of my deep interest in community
needs.
I would also be interested in multi-language answers, from communities
outside
of English speakers, just to see how the overview of community
engagement and
support looks from country to country, from language to language. If
anybody is
willing to help with translations there, it would be pretty cool,
suggesting
questions is also valuable, because I am not aware of everything that
happens
within the community, so your input is important!
There are voices from within the user base that marketing for sysadmins
ignores
the longstanding commitment of openSUSE to desktop, which is pretty fair,
considering the technologies within the openSUSE have been focused around
simplifying typically cli/config-editing work into something easily
understandable by grandparents ;D
8:02 a.m.
On 18/06/2019 20:50, Imad Aldoj wrote:
Hi,
Today [through my usual unplanned wiki ride] I landed on this page
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Strategy from the Novell era (2010) and
it was a really interesting read, mainly the SWOT analysis.
Surprisingly, (or not) a lot of it is still relevant today, even tho
on the other hand, a lot happened in the tech world.
How *and if* the community demography itself has changed? what
challenges do we face today? and where are we heading next? I think
this is a good time to look back again and analyze the outcome of the
last decade and maybe how other distros did compared to openSUSE
(specifically Fedora and Arch)
Looking at the last few years, what's your view? would be cool to hear
some opinions of people who did the last round.
We as a board briefly touched on this at the start of our board face to
face this year as a start to our foundation discussions. From that i'll
pull the two most relevant differences out.
#1 openSUSE is no longer just a project that just makes Linux distro's
we are responsible for a wide number of tools for a wide number of
people, whether its a distro or something like obs, openqa or yast these
days all these projects are considered part of openSUSE.
#2 openSUSE is now a project where people are basically free to do what
they want, and people doing whatever they want tends to drive the
strategy of the project, openSUSE has no group looking at whats going on
and telling people they should be focusing on this or that, we just let
people work on whats important to them and that seems to work pretty well.
For reference the work done in this area that you were referring too was
mostly done around the concept of creating a foundation, which didn't
eventuate at that time.
--
Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net
Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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8:24 a.m.
Appreciate the input, interesting to know that it somewhat matches the
current timeline.
thank you,
Imad
On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 3:02 PM Simon Lees <sflees(a)suse.de> wrote:
On 18/06/2019 20:50, Imad Aldoj wrote:
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Hi,
Today [through my usual unplanned wiki ride] I landed on this page
https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Strategy from the Novell era (2010) and
it was a really interesting read, mainly the SWOT analysis.
Surprisingly, (or not) a lot of it is still relevant today, even tho
on the other hand, a lot happened in the tech world.
How *and if* the community demography itself has changed? what
challenges do we face today? and where are we heading next? I think
this is a good time to look back again and analyze the outcome of the
last decade and maybe how other distros did compared to openSUSE
(specifically Fedora and Arch)
Looking at the last few years, what's your view? would be cool to hear
some opinions of people who did the last round.
We as a board briefly touched on this at the start of our board face to
face this year as a start to our foundation discussions. From that i'll
pull the two most relevant differences out.
#1 openSUSE is no longer just a project that just makes Linux distro's
we are responsible for a wide number of tools for a wide number of
people, whether its a distro or something like obs, openqa or yast these
days all these projects are considered part of openSUSE.
#2 openSUSE is now a project where people are basically free to do what
they want, and people doing whatever they want tends to drive the
strategy of the project, openSUSE has no group looking at whats going on
and telling people they should be focusing on this or that, we just let
people work on whats important to them and that seems to work pretty well.
For reference the work done in this area that you were referring too was
mostly done around the concept of creating a foundation, which didn't
eventuate at that time.
--
Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net
Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek
SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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19 Jun
19 Jun
8 a.m.
Hey,
On 18.06.19 14:02, Simon Lees wrote:
#1 openSUSE is no longer just a project that just
makes Linux distro's
The same was true a decade ago :-)
For reference the work done in this area that you were
referring too was
mostly done around the concept of creating a foundation
It had nothing to do with the foundation discussion and was a separate
effort. People did this because people though we need this.
</grandpa>
Henne
--
Henne Vogelsang
http://www.opensuse.org
Everybody has a plan, until they get hit.
- Mike Tyson
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587
days inactive
588
days old
7 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Henne Vogelsang -
Imad Aldoj -
Simon Lees -
Stasiek Michalski