Re: [opensuse-project] Closing the Candor Gap at Novell
Saill White <saill@dloo.com> writes:
[...] If Dr. Jaffe's speaking style is anything like his writing style it's no wonder that you were all still deeply confused after several hours of "very open discussion". What a nightmare that must have been.
Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On 11/16/2006 12:51 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare,
Andreas
Andreas, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with the whole thing. Maybe in time everyone else will too. I still don't. Saill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Saill White <saill.white@openlina.com> writes:
On 11/16/2006 12:51 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare,
Andreas
Andreas, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with the whole thing. Maybe in time everyone else will too. I still don't.
I'm feeling comfortable with how the discussions where handled. I still have some questions and it will take some time before I trust Microsoft... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On 11/16/2006 06:44 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
I still have some questions and it will take some time before I trust Microsoft...
Please keep us posted if you get any more answers. And let us know too if your trust level increases. On 11/16/2006 06:47 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:
3) There's something else Novell has agreed to that they don't tell us about.
Yes exactly. Microsoft bought something from Novell for a big hunk of money. It's not clear at all what they bought. On 11/16/2006 07:11 AM, Ricardo Cruz wrote:
Saill White wrote (@ Quarta, 15 de Novembro de 2006 22:17):
2. Assist Novell with interoperability issues with Office (in a limited way) and with virtualization.
The second point was obvious to me. Microsoft enterprise market is big but unstable. A lot of customers are unsatisfied and they want a better solution. However, because of interoperability problems, they either do a mass migration or they stay the same due to the cost that implies. Either way, it's bad for Microsoft to work in such an unstable market, so they try to provide customers with an alternative of a mixed solution, as well as technical support. This might be bad in a short term, but it will allow them to keep a stable customer base, which is much better to work with and the stock holders prefer.
The problem with that theory is that Microsoft doesn't need to pay money to find out how Linux works. Free software is free software, even in Redmond;) Saill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Torsdag 16 november 2006 14:52 skrev Saill White:
On 11/16/2006 12:51 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Jeff Jaffe's discussion style was very open and he answered our question clearly. It was not a nightmare,
Andreas
Andreas, I'm glad that you feel comfortable with the whole thing. Maybe in time everyone else will too. I still don't.
I must say that I agree with Saill to a certain degree. MS' motivations are still a mystery to me. MS pays a lot of money for SLE coupons..?? It doesn't make sense. I can see three possible explanations. 1) MS paid hundreds of millions of USD for the ability to FUD about interoperability with "Linux", office "open" xml and harm Red Hat. Doesn't seem realistic, though. 2) There's truth to rumours that Novell extorted MS with some patent dirt. (Rumour supported by Simon Phipps from Sun among others). 3) There's something else Novell has agreed to that they don't tell us about. It also confuses me that it was originally clearly stated that the covenant part would give a net gain to MS since they had the most patents, but when the financial details were later published they showed a huge net gain for Novell. I wonder if Jeff commented on any of that. However, whatever's going on I can't see how it can be harmful to free software or openSUSE, given the very public promises made by Novell since the deal was made. But I certainly share Saill's feeling that something more is going on than what meets the eye. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 11/16/2006 06:47 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:
2) There's truth to rumours that Novell extorted MS with some patent dirt. (Rumour supported by Simon Phipps from Sun among others).
I was thinking about that possibility a bit more. If they had uncovered Novell-patented ideas in MS code, then the obvious sweet move would be to sue the pants off everyone in Redmond. It wouldn't be such quick cash, but meanwhile they could reap the benefits of mass FUD amongst Microsoft customers who might turn to Suse out of fear that Novell would pull a reverse-SCO against them. THAT would have made them super-stars in Linux land. Of course if it was someone else's patented ideas they uncovered... Hmm. Still they should have come up with a better story to explain the cash exchange.
Martin
Saill --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
MS pays a lot of money for SLE coupons..??
It doesn't make sense. I can see three possible explanations.
1) MS paid hundreds of millions of USD for the ability to FUD about interoperability with "Linux", office "open" xml and harm Red Hat. Doesn't seem realistic, though.
Seems very realistic to me. Microsoft avoided a crush from the government as soon as right-wing came in. That right-wing now just about went out again. Also, Europe is hard on Billy's heals and it's looking to me like they're not taking as much Ballmer Bull as Georgy. Microsoft needs to be *seen* to be cooperative (of course we all know that cooperation is always only exactly as strong as thumb-screw pressure). Being able to FUD here is valuable to Microsoft. I'm certainly not going to give up on SUSE just because Novell did a deal with Microsoft. I'd want a real reason. Plus there's little competition which is a technically advanced as SUSE. Volker -- Volker Kuhlmann is list0570 with the domain in header http://volker.dnsalias.net/ Please do not CC list postings to me. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Volker Kuhlmann wrote (@ Sábado, 18 de Novembro de 2006 21:38):
MS pays a lot of money for SLE coupons..??
It doesn't make sense. I can see three possible explanations.
1) MS paid hundreds of millions of USD for the ability to FUD about interoperability with "Linux", office "open" xml and harm Red Hat. Doesn't seem realistic, though.
Seems very realistic to me. Microsoft avoided a crush from the government as soon as right-wing came in. That right-wing now just about went out again. Also, Europe is hard on Billy's heals and it's looking to me like they're not taking as much Ballmer Bull as Georgy. Microsoft needs to be *seen* to be cooperative (of course we all know that cooperation is always only exactly as strong as thumb-screw pressure).
The European Union have ordered Microsoft to reveal documentation on the protocols and formats it uses. The sentence is long given and they will start being fined next week. They must comply; no deal will change a thing. Cheers, Ricardo
Being able to FUD here is valuable to Microsoft.
I'm certainly not going to give up on SUSE just because Novell did a deal with Microsoft. I'd want a real reason. Plus there's little competition which is a technically advanced as SUSE.
Volker
-- In specifications, Murphy's Law supersedes Ohm's. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Ricardo Cruz a écrit :
being fined next week. They must comply; no deal will change a thing.
this can help them to comply (there is a part on technology exchange), and this is a very good thing for us... jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://dodin.org/mediawiki/index.php/GPS_Lowrance_GO --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
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Andreas Jaeger -
jdd sur free -
Martin Schlander -
Ricardo Cruz -
Saill White -
Volker Kuhlmann