[opensuse-project] SUSE Vouchers Have No Expiration Date! (Unlike MS's Patent Bullying)
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691 Groklaw covers the story... "No wonder, as Moglen puts it, Microsoft has been tossing the vouchers wholesale out of airplanes "as though the coupons themselves were hot, as indeed they are". But now here comes Moglen saying even that won't work, because of the lack of an expiration date on the vouchers." -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M Harris escribió:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691
Groklaw covers the story...
Please, stop writting off-topic, nonsense crap to the lists. this is not doing us any good.
On Saturday 19 May 2007 01:43, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
M Harris escribió:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070518124020691
Groklaw covers the story...
Please, stop writting off-topic, nonsense crap to the lists. this is not doing us any good.
Cristian, it is to some extent my fault and the rest is fault of missing advocacy list. People would like to discuss somewhere social events that are related to openSUSE project and Linux. The offtopic list is for stuff that has nothng to do with openSUSE. The opensuse list (main) should be preserved for new users with technical problems. I just told to M Harris and Pueblo Native what someone told to me long time ago when I asked for advocacy list, that there is no need for separate list and it can be used opensuse-project list for this purpose. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 19 May 2007 14:55, Rajko M. wrote:
I just told to M Harris and Pueblo Native what someone told to me long time ago when I asked for advocacy list, that there is no need for separate list and it can be used opensuse-project list for this purpose. Thank you, Rajko.
I suspected that the folks on opensuse-project would object; however, I thought I would give it a try. The opensuse-project people better wake up and smell the Java or its going to be game over. If they feel that this "social issue" amounts to "nonsense crap" Novell openSUSE is in for a lot of trouble--- not to mention the enterprise "crap". So, do we need an "advocacy" list, or is the opensuse-project list going to be ok for suse related social news and current events items? Thanks again for your advocacy-- I appreciate all you do! -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Sunday 20 May 2007 21:10, M Harris wrote:
On Saturday 19 May 2007 14:55, Rajko M. wrote:
I just told to M Harris and Pueblo Native what someone told to me long time ago when I asked for advocacy list, that there is no need for separate list and it can be used opensuse-project list for this purpose.
Thank you, Rajko.
I suspected that the folks on opensuse-project would object; however, I thought I would give it a try. The opensuse-project people better wake up and smell the Java or its going to be game over. If they feel that this "social issue" amounts to "nonsense crap" Novell openSUSE is in for a lot of trouble--- not to mention the enterprise "crap". So, do we need an "advocacy" list, or is the opensuse-project list going to be ok for suse related social news and current events items?
Thanks again for your advocacy-- I appreciate all you do!
I still think that we need advocacy list as that is the name used in newsgroups for similar issues. The fact that everything can disappear one day doesn't mean that we have to start mess right now. BTW, I don't see situation bad at all, to justify urgent discussions of all memebers. It seems that current development is positive for Novell and, as we are in the same boat, for openSUSE. BTW2, I'm pretty bored with selection of posts on off topic list. Bad advertising is better than no advertising at all. Such posts keep their presence there. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M Harris escribió:
If they feel that this "social issue" amounts to "nonsense crap"
what is discussed uin the article is just FUD. if you want to make valuable comments, please stay with the facts.
Novell openSUSE is in for a lot of trouble---
huh ? - The article talks about the **SLES** coupons.. if you read carefully the mailing list address it says **opensuse** is that not clear enough ? - We dont have coupons and even if we have such things, those are valid for support, you can download SLES 10 for free and use it whatever please you, however if you want updates or support you need to pay for it, that's the business. - Please inform yourself better and understand how business works before continuing your non-sense flood of off-topic messages to the lists , this only helps to annoy people and make them to loose their time. You are just contributing to do exactly what MS wants, FUD. PS: do you have any positive, realistic, fact-based suggestion for the project ? have you reported bugs ? are you testing Factory ? , if you dont have something useful or constructive to say, go away or shut up.
On Sunday 20 May 2007 22:14, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
PS: do you have any positive, realistic, fact-based suggestion for the project ? have you reported bugs ? are you testing Factory ? , if you dont have something useful or constructive to say, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
Is that all that can be done for openSUSE? Report bugs, test Factory. Most of openSUSE users will never do that for many reasons; lack of language and technical skills, other interests than development, lack of feeling that they owe something for free programs, fear from mistakes and more. People that live in different parts of the world have different preception of same problems. politely explaining what they do wrong in your opinion, can bring them to accept facts, but cursing always will produce resistance, even if you are 100% right. -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. escribió:
Is that all that can be done for openSUSE?
ok course not. however this list is the wrong place to post such articles.. I think subscribers already read the news by other means and dont need a sub-newsletter with off topic "breaking news" right ?? This list is intented to discuss possible improments changes to the **opensuse** project, is not a list to discuss novell comercial activities.
On 2007-05-20 22:36, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
This list is intented to discuss possible improments changes to the **opensuse** project, is not a list to discuss novell comercial activities.
Where does it say that? -- Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- HG Wells --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno dom, 20/05/2007 alle 23.24 -0600, Darryl Gregorash ha scritto:
On 2007-05-20 22:36, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
This list is intented to discuss possible improments changes to the **opensuse** project, is not a list to discuss novell comercial activities.
Where does it say that?
It's quite clear: opensuse-project is the name, and the description at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate says "opensuse-project@opensuse.org - project and community related discussions in English" Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 2007-05-21 02:22, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:
Il giorno dom, 20/05/2007 alle 23.24 -0600, Darryl Gregorash ha scritto:
On 2007-05-20 22:36, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
This list is intented to discuss possible improments changes to the **opensuse** project, is not a list to discuss novell comercial activities.
Where does it say that?
It's quite clear: opensuse-project is the name, and the description at http://en.opensuse.org/Communicate says "opensuse-project@opensuse.org - project and community related discussions in English"
All I can do is restate what I said to M Harris: "I fail to see why this is not /a/ proper place for this sort of discussion. This does, after all, affect the opensuse community, even if only indirectly, and isn't that what this list is for -- issues that affect the community?" -- Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- HG Wells --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Darryl Gregorash wrote: [...]
All I can do is restate what I said to M Harris: "I fail to see why this is not /a/ proper place for this sort of discussion. This does, after all, affect the opensuse community, even if only indirectly, and isn't that what this list is for -- issues that affect the community?"
Actually this list is for actually getting things done. The opensuse list is dead because of pointless OT threads and because it is dedicated to user support. This list is for people who are actually active in the community, to coordinate, discuss efforts and initiatives. cheers - -- -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUboQr3NMWliFcXcRAur+AKCsTuUNycwJByj1CJj4//Zob6mHOQCgp6EV yEbQzt8gi1wyK4u43Sl+DCY= =LEiL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
You are just contributing to do exactly what MS wants, FUD. The term FUD has become overworked. Actually, the article was clearing away
PS: do you have any positive, realistic, fact-based suggestion for the project ? have you reported bugs ? are you testing Factory ? , if you dont have something useful or constructive to say, go away or shut up. The article is entirely fact based... there are only verifiable *facts* in
On Sunday 20 May 2007 22:14, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote: the FUD... if you would actually read it closely... and is good news for the linux community at large... and was definitely *not* M$ FUD at all... the article... so, I'm not sure where you are coming from there. openSUSE is very much tied to SLES & SLED (who are you trying to kid?) and the business model developed at Novell affects *all* of the Novell offerings, enterprise and other. Marketing, advocacy, current affairs, social dogma, (and even FUD), as it relates to Novell affects the entire suse community-- enterprise and other. So, as Rajko and I have been discussing there needs to be a list for the posting and discussion of these kinds of items... as they relate to the business offerings of Novell in general. You may not personally care about politics or policy (fud included), but it *is* important and it *does* need a home on the opensuse list server... what I am trying to do is to help figure out where and how to do that for the benefit of the community at large. I am a suse advocate and an avid supporter of Novell offerings... that makes me a valuable business partner. All Novell business partners should treat one another with respect and courtesy. Ps Using terms like "go away," or "shut up," are only immature ways to irritate and alienate the opensuse client base, not to mention folks who might be new to linux in general. Why must so many people on this list server be so angry all the time?... and why must they be so rude? Its just not necessary, and its not appropriate. People assume that linux users are going to be geeks--- now they are going to assume that they must also necessarily be barbarians as well... -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M Harris escribió:
The article is entirely fact based...
No, the article is entirely opinion/intepretation based.
You may not personally care about politics or policy (fud included), but it *is* important and it *does* need a home on the opensuse list server...
I do care, however, again, this not the place. a constant flood of this posts only help us to "loose the focus and attention" in things that really matters or are more urgent to improve or fix.
Ps Using terms like "go away," or "shut up," are only immature ways to irritate and alienate the opensuse client base,
Your constants off-topic posts are alienating the subscribers of this lists and combined with other people that do the same are converting several opensuse lists in "chit chat" or "daily breaking news with trolling^W^Wpersonal comments" and that makes us no good.
off-topic posts are alienating the subscribers of this lists and combined with other people that do the same are converting several opensuse lists in "chit chat" or "daily breaking news Yes, I know... and that's the point here... there are enough people that want
On Sunday 20 May 2007 23:49, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote: this kind of chit-chat that it would be *nice* if there were an official opensuse list for that kind of dialogue--- for those who do want it. So, I do think that you and I have some things in common... we both understand the need for another list, and we both want the best for opensuse... so what can we do together (as a community) to get another list on the server for advocacy related activity? Frankly, when Rajko suggested that we use the project list for this purpose I suspected that it wasn't going to work... and I do understand your objection clearly... so it still seems like an advocacy list would help. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 2007-05-20 23:08, M Harris wrote:
On Sunday 20 May 2007 23:49, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
off-topic posts are alienating the subscribers of this lists and combined with other people that do the same are converting several opensuse lists in "chit chat" or "daily breaking news
Yes, I know... and that's the point here... there are enough people that want this kind of chit-chat that it would be *nice* if there were an official opensuse list for that kind of dialogue--- for those who do want it. So, I do think that you and I have some things in common... we both understand the need for another list, and we both want the best for opensuse... so what can we do together (as a community) to get another list on the server for advocacy related activity? Frankly, when Rajko suggested that we use the project list for this purpose I suspected that it wasn't going to work... and I do understand your objection clearly... so it still seems like an advocacy list would help.
I fail to see why this is not /a/ proper place for this sort of discussion. This does, after all, affect the opensuse community, even if only indirectly, and isn't that what this list is for -- issues that affect the community? -- Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- HG Wells --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Il giorno dom, 20/05/2007 alle 23.21 -0500, M Harris ha scritto:
Marketing, advocacy, current affairs, social dogma, (and even FUD), as it relates to Novell affects the entire suse community-- enterprise and other. So, as Rajko and I have been discussing there needs to be a list for the posting and discussion of these kinds of items... as they relate to the business offerings of Novell in general. You may not personally care about politics or policy (fud included), but it *is* important and it *does* need a home on the opensuse list server... what I am trying to do is to help figure out where and how to do that for the benefit of the community at large. I am a suse advocate and an avid supporter of Novell offerings... that makes me a valuable business partner. All Novell business partners should treat one another with respect and courtesy.
I don't agree. We don't need an advocacy list for a simple reason: it would become a FUD list in seconds, full of useless discussions like this one. Political discussions are too often a problem and a loss of time, which is really not worth to start them in most of the cases. It would be better to concentrate the efforts on actually helping the project instead of discussing of each word said or written by Novell, the FSF, whatever. I strongly believe the image of the project is deeply related to the quality of the product, which should be the first goal to achieve. The rest is additional stuff, which might help, but is not essential.
Ps Using terms like "go away," or "shut up," are only immature ways to irritate and alienate the opensuse client base, not to mention folks who might be new to linux in general.
I agree. However: * OpenSUSE is a community, not a client base. The difference should be evident to everyone speaking about open source. * These expressions were rarely, if ever, used as you report them. Only trolls and people spreading FUD were invited to stop, and not to "shout up". * It's also immature to keep an off-topic discussion on.
Why must so many people on this list server be so angry all the time?... and why must they be so rude?
Maybe because they're fed up of reading the same things repeated thousands of times? Maybe because these things are wrong and were clarified thousands of times? Just some hypotheses.
Its just not necessary, and its not appropriate. People assume that linux users are going to be geeks--- now they are going to assume that they must also necessarily be barbarians as well...
You're exaggerating. OpenSUSE community is definitely more friendly than a lot of others Linux communities. Maybe it's not perceived at the beginning, but just look around for a while and you will understand it. Try to ask a question on the appropriate mailing list, on the IRC channel or using Novell bugzilla. You will usually obtain an appropriate technical answer which solves your problem and you will be able to discuss of your issue directly with SUSE developers. I'm not going to say openSUSE community is perfect. But it doesn't match to your description of a place populated by barbarians. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Cristian Rodriguez R. -
Darryl Gregorash -
M Harris -
Pascal Bleser -
Rajko M.