28 May
2007
28 May
'07
11:48 a.m.
A bit of feedback:
The descriptions for various opensuse-related software repositories on
the opensuse website[*] are rather disappointing, i.e. a user does not
know what these repositories offer. Therefore, it's difficult to know
and decide which repository might be worth adding as installation
source. This is not such a big problem for experienced opensuse users
but it is one in particular for new SuSE users. Just a few examples:
- Packman: Packman offers various additional packages for openSUSE.
- Guru: Guru's RPM site contains packages optimized for i686 and x86_64.
- suser-jengelh: Various packages from the suser-jengelh repository.
- Schiele: More packages for various SUSE releases by Robert Schiele can
be found here. Some of them are new packages, some of them are just
updated packages from the original SUSE ones, and some just fix bugs
when SUSE does not provide these bug fixes.
- Scorot: Scorot is another repository with many packages.
- suser-oc2pus: Various Packages since Suse 8.2.
- suser-liviudm: Various packages by Liviu Damian.
Well, it's not really surprising that the repository "suser-jengelh"
contains "various packages from the suser-jengelh repository", isn't it?
I understand that some repositories are huge and thus it's difficult to
come up with a better description without going into too much detail.
However, it would be great if the maintainers of those repositories (or
somebody else with knowledge what these repositories actually offer)
could expand the description and at least mention the categories of
software that one might expect when adding the repositories. Maybe
someone else has an idea how to improve the current situation...
I am not sure whether this topic belongs here (because it's about
community software repositories) or on the opensuse-wiki list (because
it's about the website). Anyway, it's a bit of feedback.
Cheers, Th.
[*]http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories
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28 May
28 May
12:25 p.m.
Thomas Hertweck:
Well, it's not really surprising that the
repository "suser-jengelh"
contains "various packages from the suser-jengelh repository", isn't it?
This one makes me laugh :D ;), good humor.
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12:55 p.m.
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Thomas Hertweck wrote:
The descriptions for various opensuse-related software
repositories on
the opensuse website[*] are rather disappointing, i.e. a user does not
know what these repositories offer. Therefore, it's difficult to know
and decide which repository might be worth adding as installation
source. This is not such a big problem for experienced opensuse users
but it is one in particular for new SuSE users. Just a few examples:
- Packman: Packman offers various additional packages for openSUSE.
- Guru: Guru's RPM site contains packages optimized for i686 and x86_64.
- suser-jengelh: Various packages from the suser-jengelh repository.
- Schiele: More packages for various SUSE releases by Robert Schiele can
be found here. Some of them are new packages, some of them are just
updated packages from the original SUSE ones, and some just fix bugs
when SUSE does not provide these bug fixes.
- Scorot: Scorot is another repository with many packages.
suser-scorot isn't maintained anymore since quite a while IIRC.
- suser-oc2pus: Various Packages since Suse 8.2.
oc2pus (aka Tony Graffy) moved all his packages to Packman since several
months.
- suser-liviudm: Various packages by Liviu Damian.
[...]
I understand that some repositories are huge and thus
it's difficult to
come up with a better description without going into too much detail.
Indeed. Frankly, it's really difficult to describe Packman and Guru
because we have lots of different stuff in there.
Multimedia (non-crippled), games, network tools, drivers, KDE themes,
... ...
A bit of everything, really.
Typically, packages end up in Packman or Guru instead of the
distribution because the distribution is not open to non-Novell
employees. The openSUSE Build Service is quite recent (both Packman and
Guru exist since several years). And there are a lot of packages that
may not be hosted in the Build Service for reasons (pretty much)
everyone knows of (ktorrent with DHT, amarok with MP4 + MySQL +
PostgreSQL support, libxine1 uncrippled, mad, ...)
Could be the start of a description but... would also have to check
whether explaining that on the wiki is OK from a legal point-of-view.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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1:27 p.m.
Pascal Bleser wrote:
Could be the start of a description but... would also
have to check
whether explaining that on the wiki is OK from a legal point-of-view.
simply say "more uptodate packages in multimedia environment"
jdd
--
http://www.dodin.net
http://gourmandises.orangeblog.fr/
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1:33 p.m.
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jdd wrote:
Pascal Bleser wrote:
Which is as useful as the current description
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
Could be the start of a description but... would
also have to check
whether explaining that on the wiki is OK from a legal point-of-view.
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1:53 p.m.
Pascal Bleser wrote:
[...]
suser-scorot isn't maintained anymore since quite a while IIRC.
[...]
oc2pus (aka Tony Graffy) moved all his packages to Packman since several
months.
Shouldn't these repositories then be removed from the website?
[...] Frankly, it's really difficult to describe
Packman and Guru
because we have lots of different stuff in there.
Multimedia (non-crippled), games, network tools, drivers, KDE themes,
... ...
A bit of everything, really.
Yes, it's really difficult to come up with a proper description. That's
why I asked if somebody has a better way to explain it. Somehow and
somewhere mentioning multimedia could be a good idea...
[...]
Could be the start of a description but... would also have to check
whether explaining that on the wiki is OK from a legal point-of-view.
ACK. However, I can't see a problem if, for instance, the Packman
description contains the general information that a user can find
multimedia stuff in this repository.
The situation might be different if you want to mention that there are
non-crippled versions which possibly violate patents etc. By the way,
there are links on the opensuse website that point to these repositories
- could that also cause legal problems? I know that the German website
www.heise.de had some problems some time ago because they had a link on
their website pointing to some software officially considered as illegal
(this software bypasses DVD protection).
Cheers, Th.
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5:05 p.m.
Den Monday 28 May 2007 20:53:00 skrev Thomas Hertweck:
Pascal Bleser wrote:
Removing repos that don't build for 10.2 would sure clean up a lot. Also
removing repos for End-Of-Life versions would help.
I'm more than willing to do the work if there are no feisty objections.
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[...]
suser-scorot isn't maintained anymore since quite a while IIRC.
[...]
oc2pus (aka Tony Graffy) moved all his packages to Packman since several
months.
Shouldn't these repositories then be removed from the website? 
7:33 p.m.
Martin Schlander wrote:
Removing repos that don't build for 10.2 would
sure clean up a lot. Also
removing repos for End-Of-Life versions would help.
I'm more than willing to do the work if there are no feisty objections.
Why would there be a Feisty objection? We use openSUSE, not Ubuntu.
;-) :-P
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2 Jun
2 Jun
6:47 a.m.
Den Tuesday 29 May 2007 00:05:02 skrev Martin Schlander:
I'm more than willing to do the work if there are
no feisty objections.
Didn't hear any objections. Removed all repos that don't build for 10.2, and
removed all references to repos for unsupported versions. Much cleaner now.
http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories
.. that should only leave the problem regarding (un)clear descriptions
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6 Jun
6 Jun
1:31 p.m.
Martin Schlander wrote:
[...]
Didn't hear any objections. Removed all repos that don't build for 10.2, and
removed all references to repos for unsupported versions. Much cleaner now.
Thanks Martin, I'll try to have a look at it... (too many things to do
*sigh*)
http://en.opensuse.org/Additional_YaST_Package_Repositories
.. that should only leave the problem regarding (un)clear descriptions
Well, this can only be improved by somebody who knows the repositories
very well. Any volunteers? ;-)
Take care, Th.
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29 May
29 May
12:05 a.m.
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Thomas Hertweck wrote:
[...]
By the way, there are links on the opensuse website
that point to
these repositories - could that also cause legal problems? I know
that the German website www.heise.de had some problems some time ago
because they had a link on their website pointing to some software
officially considered as illegal (this software bypasses DVD
protection).
We're all very aware of that case and that's the reason for lots and
lots of issues, such as not having the Packman repository proposed as a
repository out-of-the-box in YaST2 (disabled, but "clickable"), having
information about packages to install for non-crippled multimedia
support that may not be on opensuse.org (it's on opensuse-community.org
instead), etc....
Having a link to Packman on that one page on the wiki has been cleared
by Novell's legal dept though so.. I guess it's fine ;)
But that pathetic legal decision in Germany has had huge and painful
consequences for many, including us.
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\ <pascal.bleser(a)skynet.be> <guru(a)unixtech.be>
_\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane.
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12:18 a.m.
On 2007-05-28 23:05, Pascal Bleser wrote:
<snip>
But that pathetic legal decision in Germany has had huge and painful
consequences for many, including us.
I still think we need a global challenge to any law which prevents any
person from making a (legal) backup copy of his/her copyrighted material
-- literally force every country to honour its obligations under the
Berne Copyright Convention, which does not in any way restrict a user to
an "approved" operating system.
--
Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. -- HG Wells
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2 Jun
2 Jun
8:25 p.m.
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The Monday 2007-05-28 at 23:18 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:
AFAIK, you can do a copy of an encrypted dvd, for example, without
decrypting it, using decss o equivalent, provided it fits into the
destination media. Just copy the iso image, or the files.
Decryption is need to play them, however.
It is not a copy prevention scheme, regardless of what they say. But that
is just one of the problems preventing having full multimedia, legally, in
linux.
- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
But that
pathetic legal decision in Germany has had huge and painful
consequences for many, including us.
I still think we need a global challenge to any law which prevents any
person from making a (legal) backup copy of his/her copyrighted material
-- literally force every country to honour its obligations under the
Berne Copyright Convention, which does not in any way restrict a user to
an "approved" operating system. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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4973
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4982
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12 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
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Andrew Dorney -
Carlos E. R. -
Darryl Gregorash -
jdd -
Martin Schlander -
mesmero -
Pascal Bleser -
Thomas Hertweck