On Wed, Nov 09, 2011 at 11:23:28AM +0100, Sascha Peilicke wrote:

On 11/09/2011 09:40 AM, Tim wrote:

...

since I didn't got any answer I am sending this to factory too and just try to be straightforward.

There are so many forum entries about openSUSE 12.1 and Kmail 4.7 in particular where people are complaining about it.

Many openSUSE-KDE users who are no experts might think that openSUSE is "poor" if they ship such a buggy default mail client like this. And like I mentioned I think KDE users are the biggest user base of openSUSE and openSUSE is often recommend if people want to use KDE.

Please don't get me wrong, I am not blaming, just don't make this mistake. I think incidents like this are the reasons for people to change the distribution.

Try a different mailer first :-) I know more of a handful KDE contributors which don't use it anymore. AFAIR, almost all of them switched to Thunderbird, some use Claws-mail.

I believe we really should make Thunderbird the default choice. Bonus points are:

* Known to Windows users / can switch easily * No breakage sinse >3 years * Has a truckload of plugins * Can integrate really well into $DESKTOP (needs plugins) * Gnome would benefit too

It's basically the same like:

* We ship Firefox instead of Konquerer/rekonq and Epiphany * We ship LibreOffice instead of KOffice and Gnome-Office * We ship systemd (and sysvinit for an interim period) instead of upstart, bsd-init and all the others.

These where all strong decisions, but they show a certain vision for openSUSE. Having a vision is surely better that we-package-whatever-crap-upstream-invents (tm). Vision means focus, focus means concentrating on doing one thing good instead everything in a mediocre way.

Full ack. And I give this even if I'm a big fan of sysvinit. But on the long term this will not help the project to deliver a modern system. From a well working system I expect to get one application to address one purpose right. Think why so many former and long time Linux users nowadays are running a system from Apple. On the one side they don't care about the license and on the other side it looks like they get a well working system. At least better working than the stuff we offer. And who does the same? Ubuntu! And the Benevolent Dictator for Life (BDFL) tries to drive the project from the license point of view into the same direction where Apple already is. With all these many opportunities we offer we make the life sucking hard to our users. And this doesn't only to beginners. I'm quite sure we'll never see this changing. Cause all the religious fights make it impossible to move one step back, monitor the situation without emotions, and to make a reasonable decision. I consider it quite good to have all the opportunities the amount of Open Source Software offers. But to gain more market share based on the amount of users it's counterproductive. Longe life KDE, Gnome, and any other DE. But the winner at the end unfortunately will not be an Open Source Software based operating system. With this reply I'm trying to relocate the thread to opensuse-project as this discussion isn't an issue of opensuse-factory. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany