Re: [opensuse-project] Re: [opensuse-factory] The release notes/product highlights for 12.1
On 10/25/2011 03:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
If we have a "Community" section in the release notes we can highlight projects such as KDE:KDE3 that are efforts by the community or individuals within the community and that are not part of the release as such. In this section we could also talk about other projects such as the Virtualization:Cloud projects that are not part of 12.1 proper but might be interesting to people looking at openSUSE.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
Not really, but I look forward to further clarification of what is community driven and what isn't. It is clear that some things are not (KDE4, systemd come to mind), but it's all mostly hidden behind the scene.
Excuse me?
How are KDE4 and systemd not community driven?
Why don't you explain the opposite to me? What were the decision processes involved in the focus-shift towards KDE4?
OK, I'll be partially repeating what I said in the thread when we discussed systemd. Those who contribute to any given devel project within openSUSE determine the direction of the project by means of their contribution. If a given devel project such as the init system or KDE happens to have mostly contributors that also happen to work at SUSE than that's just the way it is. However, this does not preclude contributors that do not work for SUSE, there's no "SUSE employees only" project in openSUSE, to contribute to the devel project. With contribution one gets influence over the direction of the project. Those who do the work determine the direction. Then they submit to factory and if things work and are maintained the submissions generally get accepted into factory. As I mentioned previously, the maintainers of the devel projects generally follow the direction of upstream, thus the switch to KDE4 is quite logical as KDE3 was abandoned upstream. Similar for the init system, upstream development is moving to systemd. There is nothing that prevents someone from maintaining the init system in openSUSE, just don't expect it to happen by some miracle, it takes people to do it and if the people who maintain the startup processes decide that something new is better and they don't break what I am doing I have little grounds to complain. If something breaks I get an opportunity to contribute and I can file a bug. As long as I do not contribute to a given project I certainly have no grounds to bitch and complain about the direction the project takes. I certainly can voice my opinion, but that should occur in a well mannered tone. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU SUSE-IBM Software Integration Center LINUX Tech Lead rjschwei@suse.com rschweik@ca.ibm.com 781-464-8147 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Robert Schweikert wrote:
How are KDE4 and systemd not community driven?
Why don't you explain the opposite to me? What were the decision processes involved in the focus-shift towards KDE4?
OK, I'll be partially repeating what I said in the thread when we discussed systemd.
Those who contribute to any given devel project within openSUSE determine the direction of the project by means of their contribution.
If a given devel project such as the init system or KDE happens to have mostly contributors that also happen to work at SUSE than that's just the way it is. However, this does not preclude contributors that do not work for SUSE, there's no "SUSE employees only" project in openSUSE, to contribute to the devel project. With contribution one gets influence over the direction of the project.
I have contributed to a quite a few (non-opensuse) projects over the last 10+ years, my contributions have never led to much influence :-) Not to say that you're wrong, just that by contributing to the openSUSE project, one does not also automagically gain any influence. It is perfectly acceptable that it needs a lot more than the odd contribution, but when the main contributors' day-jobs are paid for by SUSE, a few spare hours per month from someone in the Outer Hebrides is unlikely to gain much traction (influence-wise). Personally I feel more compelled to participate where my contribution matters, but I'm a long-time SUSE user, and can't give up on it so easily.
There is nothing that prevents someone from maintaining the init system in openSUSE, just don't expect it to happen by some miracle, it takes people to do it
Agreed, and those seem to be being supplied by SUSE. Who is control, did you say? If SUSE didn't pay, systemd wouldn't be happening.
and if the people who maintain the startup processes decide that something new is better and they don't break what I am doing I have little grounds to complain.
Different topic, but systemd is breaking quite a few things these days. I seem to remember reading about postfix and virtualbox just today.
If something breaks I get an opportunity to contribute and I can file a bug.
Also a different topic, but I've recently filed one or two bugs and been told not to expect much as the SUSE employee looking after that is busy elsewhere.
As long as I do not contribute to a given project I certainly have no grounds to bitch and complain about the direction the project takes. I certainly can voice my opinion, but that should occur in a well mannered tone.
+1. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (7.4°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
Le 25/10/2011 22:34, Per Jessen a écrit :
Agreed, and those seem to be being supplied by SUSE. Who is control, did you say? If SUSE didn't pay, systemd wouldn't be happening.
when Fedora decided to use systemd, do you think it was a suse decision? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://pizzanetti.fr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011, jdd wrote:
Agreed, and those seem to be being supplied by SUSE. Who is control, did you say? If SUSE didn't pay, systemd wouldn't be happening. when Fedora decided to use systemd, do you think it was a suse decision?
No, but openSUSE decided not to ship it in as early (and incomplete)
stage as Fedora did. ;-) And there is definitely an investment SUSE
has been making to fix things it up -- thanks Frederic et al.
Gerald
--
Dr. Gerald Pfeifer
On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Robert Schweikert
On 10/25/2011 03:00 PM, Per Jessen wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
If we have a "Community" section in the release notes we can highlight projects such as KDE:KDE3 that are efforts by the community or individuals within the community and that are not part of the release as such. In this section we could also talk about other projects such as the Virtualization:Cloud projects that are not part of 12.1 proper but might be interesting to people looking at openSUSE.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
Not really, but I look forward to further clarification of what is community driven and what isn't. It is clear that some things are not (KDE4, systemd come to mind), but it's all mostly hidden behind the scene.
Excuse me?
How are KDE4 and systemd not community driven?
Why don't you explain the opposite to me? What were the decision processes involved in the focus-shift towards KDE4?
OK, I'll be partially repeating what I said in the thread when we discussed systemd.
Those who contribute to any given devel project within openSUSE determine the direction of the project by means of their contribution.
If a given devel project such as the init system or KDE happens to have mostly contributors that also happen to work at SUSE than that's just the way it is. However, this does not preclude contributors that do not work for SUSE, there's no "SUSE employees only" project in openSUSE, to contribute to the devel project. With contribution one gets influence over the direction of the project.
Those who do the work determine the direction. Then they submit to factory and if things work and are maintained the submissions generally get accepted into factory.
In support of Robert statement, I'll say that I'm a non-employee contributor. I have 2 areas of interest primarily. neither are being pursued by paid employees as far as I know. 1) Computer Forensic tools - I have pushed a number of perl modules which are very specialized for computer forensic use. All of those were accepted (or not) based on the quality of the submission, not based on the relevance of what I submitted. I also submitted sleuthkit as a set of command line tools for computer forensics. Once I got past some licensing and technical issues, it was accepted and will be in 12.1 Note: I don't think the above is release note worthy. It is a too little, too late issue. I hope to push a bigger set of computer forensic tools into 12.2. At that point a comment about the collection would be appreciated. 2) a ext4 snapshot extension - I have packaged a KMP and userspace tools to support point-in-time snapshots to be supported with the ext4 filesystem. The KMP is in the filesystem repo right now. Unfortunately it is probably too late to push them into 12.1. But that is a technical issue, not a political one. So if you want to have specific features in opensuse, it seems to me it's just a matter of getting your hands dirty and doing it. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org
participants (5)
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Gerald Pfeifer -
Greg Freemyer -
jdd -
Per Jessen -
Robert Schweikert