On 12/03/2013 11:51 AM, Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 12/02/2013 04:39 PM, Simon wrote:
On 12/03/2013 01:06 AM, Greg Freemyer wrote:
On 12/01/2013 10:09 PM, Simon wrote:
>> * Using OBS repositories to cover further use cases. >> >> - The idea is to initially target developers that need a stable >> base >> and >> tools on top. >> - Another interesting use case are derivatives. There could >> be more. > Derivatives are usually community owned, in past we publicized SUSE > Studio. Also, do we really have the man power (being realistic) to > churn out more derivatives from within the community? Derivatives are the consequence of having a solid base others can build solution for their needs upon. Our main role would be to create that base. With our tools and our values, we would have a better chance to attract people interested in creating them.
The proposal is not about providing solutions directly as much as creating the conditions for other to come and create them. Personally i hate the idea of derivatives, i think one of openSUSE's strengths is its lack of derivatives. There is no need for derivatives because it is easy to submit the software you want into openSUSE without having a organization putting restrictions on you (Ubuntu), or long testing periods like debian. openSUSE's base is good enough that you don't need to create derivatives. I much prefer the openSUSE approach of a DVD with almost everything, to having separate kubuntu xubuntu *buntu distributions. At the same time having worked on Enlightenment for openSUSE i know
On 12/01/2013 09:17 PM, agustin benito bethencourt wrote: there's not much spare room on that DVD so maybe it is worth looking at providing openSUSE DVD's for different subsets so size is a lesser restriction like a openSUSE DVD with developer tools, or server / admin or design. Similar to the openSUSE for education. Doing it by creating a whole bunch of derivative distro's though just leads to fragmentation in my opinion Anyway that all this is (My opinion) so have a good day
Simon
Sorry to double post but just to make it clear, after installing any of
these dvd's the same normal openSUSE oss and non-oss repositories would
be available allowing anyone to install any openSUSE package.
Simon The success of susestudio proves you wrong. Thousands of users want
Simon <simon@simotek.net> wrote: their own preconfigured boot media, and all based on suse / opensuse.
That is 1000s of "advanced users" that the statistics presented ignore. Many of those thousands are developers.
My personal contribution path was
User => susestudio user => obs user (to build packages I wanted on my susestudio appliance) => factory submitter
Anyway, susestudio and obs combined make for a fantastic pairing.
I don't know if susestudio has any team support functionality. If not, adding that class of functionality would better help openSUSE support the team concept.
Is susestudio within scope for these discussions?
Greg
I certainly wouldn't argue against the fact that there is a large number of people who want to make there own Linux Distro. For people who need to set up a larger number of computers. What i was questioning was the need for derivative distro's that end up with there own artwork/web/support team that really just provide distrox with window manager y and a few other minor changes. All that does is splits community resources for little gain.
To summarize mostly i'm concerned about splits and extra effort that could be required if creating derivative's is not managed well. In my opinion a spin off of openSUSE thats marked as openSUSE for education which provides openSUSE with different packages to the main DVD are probably beneficial, creating a "servLinux" which is basicly openSUSE aimed at the server market is probably not ok.
Fair enough, but what would you do about it? Forbid a group of people that want to use openSUSE as a base to create "servLinux"? This doesn't really work, everything is open source and as long as they do not violate any trademarks it's all good.
One can make the same argument about CentOS and after all these years it turns out that CentOS actually helps RH even though RH still tries to make the CentOS guys lives as difficult as possible.
Later, Robert
Nah i certainly wouldn't block them i was more referring to official openSUSE derivatives then someone else coming in and making there own distro, if they were going to do that anyway and package some new applications or make some others better then in the long term its better they use openSUSE then something else as there base. Originally my comments were partly in regard to the number of derivatives being used to measure how good a distro is. The rest was personal opinion but also a reminder that if we go down the road of creating derivatives we should be careful to manage and publicize them well to avoid fragmentation in the community. Theres 2 point's that i would consider if the openSUSE comunity was going to go down the road of having official derivatives or spin offs. 1. Users should know that they are still using openSUSE and the place they should go for help and support is openSUSE not somewhere else. I think this is clear with something like openSUSE edu. 2. The second is the use of the word derivative for official spin offs or custom DVD's, generally derivatives are maintained, controlled and run by a group separate from the distribution that it has derived from, so we need to be careful using phrases like that when talking about openSUSE sub projects. Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org