Hey, On 13.07.23 12:18, Simon Lees wrote:
On 7/12/23 22:28, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 11.07.23 16:36, Simon Lees wrote:
On 7/11/23 22:49, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 11.07.23 14:36, Simon Lees wrote:
On 7/11/23 21:43, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 11.07.23 08:31, Simon Lees wrote:
And *all we do* is for the people of our community and the people of the world wide Free Software community we are part of. Ergo: openSUSE is 100% politics.
Well sure, then reframe the question to be about how involved openSUSE as a Project is in non foss politics if you would like to be more specific.
Hm, did I not just tell you that? Everything involving people in our community concerns us. Be it directly related to Free Software or not.
Yes, and at the end of the day in this thread some people (not me) have expressed that the way we show concern for some people may alienate some other people.
Sure, I get that. Then the solution is to work the "conflict of interests" out among the members of this project. BTW an openSUSE Member¹ is something else than some anonymous rando writing to this mailing list, reddit or event using the software we produce.
And guess what, we already have sorted this out *before* this whole project started in the values stated in the guiding principles! ... "We value diversity and pluralism as a way of addressing the needs of a broad variety of people."
To me the heart of the issue is we are a diverse group of people from a diverse set of upbringings and depending on those upbringings people may have different feelings about the best way to interpret the above and what may or may not be the best way to be inclusive. But i'm happy to > agree to disagree on that.
We don't have to disagree. We can talk it out, that's what we are here for. No matter our upbringing :-) The best way to be inclusive is not to include everyone. Including people who believe we should exclude or suppress certain other people is the line. That's just a variation of Poppers paradox of tolerance¹ And I can tell you that this is the "spirit" of our guiding principles because I was there when we wrote them :-) So anyone's upbringing can inspire whatever feelings about this being wrong (if it does, see above for options to act on this) but that will not change how the openSUSE Project got raised and which values it has. Henne ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson