Yo, On 05.12.2013 16:50, agustin benito bethencourt wrote:
On Wednesday 04 December 2013 17:07:06 Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 04.12.2013 16:22, Agustin Benito Bethencourt wrote:
On Wednesday, December 04, 2013 03:32:45 PM Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 30.11.2013 15:37, Robert Schweikert wrote: According to progress.o.o there are 285 tasks to do, there are exactly 2 (very minor ones) that require action from SUSE.
All the ones related with infrastructure are currently done by SUSE. Legal ones too. The Release Team is SUSE.....
Again, this is the case because your team chose (or where forced by what/whomever doesn't matter) to do it, not because nobody else can do it.
Please remember that in the tool is not everything that is done for the Release, but everything we do or want to check/follow. There are tasks not present there that requires some access to infrastructure or authorization that only SUSE employees have. They are just a few though.
Then why are they not in the tool?
That some people that participate in this process are employed by SUSE is a distinction you are very keen to point out, it's not a distinction that traditionally mattered in this project. It's a distinction we have fought very hard to get rid of.
So if Lars updates mirrorbrain or Ciaran checks package submission it's because they are part of the openSUSE community, not because they are employed by SUSE.
The good thing about working at SUSE is that they do it, no matter how they see themselves: community members, sponsored community members, employees working in openSUSE, employees with freedom to work in any Free Software project so they choose openSUSE....
Yes that is nice for people at SUSE, I know first hand, but it's irrelevant from the view of the openSUSE project. Whatever conditions you work in we are interested in your contribution. If you do it payed by someone or not, is of no interest for us.
I assume there was a time in which this fight you mention was relevant. I am open to have this discussion about who we are, how do we see ourselves and how other see us in oSC14.... with beers.
There is no need to discuss this. We have it written down for everybody: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Guiding_principles
As I said some months ago, there is a lot to do in this direction. But the process is set up in a way that is very hard to handle it if you are not working full time on it. It is to great extend a product focus process based on what SUSE used to do.
Like I've said, once we have handled this with a way bigger percentage of not-full-time community members. It's a recent change that we don't anymore.
I do not understand this fully.
Are you saying that the current set up in the distribution is a regression compared to how the distro was released in the past in terms on community involvement?
I am saying that there now is a smaller group of people (mainly your team) contributing to the distribution release. Less people from other parts of the project. You have documented the process for external contributors but you also took it over to run this process, which means other people loose interest. I urge you to think about this...
One goal of Factory proposal is to open the process....in a way that is affordable on volunteer basis, removing the "product component", clarifying distributing and reducing the "work packages" so it is easier to manage on volunteer basis.
No matter the development process in factory, as long as we release a Linux distribution the amount of tasks involved to pull this off will be roughly the same. Please just look at your own task list in progress and see what you can leave be after you have changed factory...
Many of what we do now in the Release is because the distro is also for developers. In the future Release those tasks will change. Might be less or more but will change.
I'm sorry are you trying to say that you don't want our distribution to be for developers anymore?
Part of the success of this Release version will be: a.- To set up the process in a way that volunteers can participate in short/extensive periods of time. There is no need to apply intensive work with time pressure.
See above...
b.- Put paid developers in those less attractive tasks that still needs to be done, at least initially.
We don't "put" developers anywhere and we don't care if they get salary and most of all we don't care who pays their salary if they get some. We are an open source project, not a company. Please get this into your head :-)
I will try to remember your principles.
Please consider that not everybody must share them, they must respect them.
These are not my principles, these are some of the guiding principles of the openSUSE project. The most common understanding on how this project works. The basis for everything we do here.
People with different ones can also contribute and enjoy the project being good citizens. The word "open" is there for good reasons ;-)
No one is stopping you from doing anything. If you want a server and a desktop version, go ahead create them. If you want to have more openQA in the development process, go ahead integrate it. If you want to go after professional users, go ahead do that. You're even in the prime position that you have payed resources at hand that you can direct. But you can't change the direction and the goal we all work for. We are not about optimizing our resources, we are about choice. We are not about market share, we are about collaboration. We are not about profit, we are about respect. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://www.opensuse.org Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org