On 12/17/2013 12:18 AM, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
On Monday 16 December 2013 13:16:17 Adrian Schröter wrote:
On Montag, 16. Dezember 2013, 11:38:23 wrote Michael Schroeder:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 11:32:09AM +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
What does this mean for the project? Either the release should be done by others or in another way, or openSUSE will essentially skip a release. The project can still get updates to its users - there is tumbleweed and OBS of course, and perhaps we can do a simpler/preview release. Many things are possible. I would be happy to help out with the release. Skipping a relase would send a dubious message to our users, it's much better to release it in a simpler form, e.g. with not so many new things. (Hey, releasing some kind of stable update is maybe even what our users want!) Just want to agree with Michael here. This sound like you do announce the end of openSUSE as an End-User product here.
To avoid this I would also help again with producing an openSUSE release again. Because I do still believe that without the acceptance as end-user product (not equal to a stable developer product) we would loose way to many people.
Problem is though that with Michael and me being busy with openSUSE distro, we would not have time for integrating and discussing your OBS ideas at all. Yeah, that wouldn't help.
Thing is - are you sure it would be so bad for users? Note that over half our users hasn't moved to 12.3 yet - let alone 13.1. And a large percentage of our users is still running a release before 12.2 - either evergreen or not supported at all. See https://lizards.opensuse.org/2013/08/23/more-on-statistics/
So I think it is safe to say the majority of our users won't care much about skipping a release. And those who do have plenty of alternatives with OBS and Tumbleweed etc.
However, a much more important thing is what Michael said - "Skipping a release would send a dubious message to our users". I agree with that, for certain. Then again, communication is my thing, isn't it? And I believe we have a good story, a good message. Remember, 12.2 had a delay because our processes and tools have not kept up with our growth and ambitions. We have NOT fixed that problem yet - only thrown more manpower at it, at the expense of other things. We're now working on a series of plans to fix that problem and I hope it is clear to everybody that this is needed.
in short: I think the numbers show that the real impact on users is limited; especially as we have alternatives. In the area of communication, we have a good story and I think we can get that out in the right way, too.
Hugs, J
I guess looking at it from the outside could you change the release cycle for the next 2 releases to yearly, that would in theory give the team 8 month's (2 lots of 4) to focus on non release work before starting the release process. From a user perspective waiting a year instead of 8 months seems better then skipping a release. If we skip a release we also miss out on all the publicity generated by a release and a release half way through would give a chance to test some of the stuff that had already been done. If it worked for the next 2 releases maybe it cold be kept long term so the tea can keep improving openSUSE. Just my thoughts Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org