2008/12/27 James Tremblay aka SLEducator <fxrsliberty@opensuse.us>:
Rob OpenSuSE wrote:
2008/12/24 James Tremblay aka SLEducator <fxrsliberty@opensuse.us>:
Yep, but someone's made a good suggestion. To have a solid kernel from previous release available as a fall back, for the installer. Then a booting kernel might be available from update, and the older installed kernel could be put on to, as the "Fall back" in that case.
It's not just the Kernel it's application software availability too.
The fall back kernel though, increases chances of a successful install, to get to the point of having updates.
Ubuntu has weaknesses, it drove me crazy, but the large user base, means that it attracts spins and software developed for it, making it appear to "just work" for many users.
Are ppl installing 8.04.1 (LTS) now, in general I think not, and fit pc who ship with Ubuntu pre-installed move to new release, despite it's shorter support cycle.
Can we get download statistics, I am willing to bet this is the gauge that Canonical uses to justify it's LTS version. I use and install SLE because I want it to work. Novell is starting to make money this way,
Rather than download, it's installation usage that would be most meaningful. If you already have 8.04.1 LTS, you won't re-download it
I don't think ppl will install a release that offers :
kernel 3 or 4 versions out of date KDE/GNOME that is 1 or 2 versions out of date
I'm not sure I can agree with discounting a a slightly "stale" release. Specific examples can be seen already, "Joe Plumber" made Microsoft extend the life of XP which was already 7+ _/*years*/_ , not weeks, old.
M$ doesn't have a competitor releasing a Vista, less resource hogging, with more complete drivers and more stable.
There are ,without a doubt two distinct user types, to date we have been turning a blind eye to the needs of 'Joe Plumber" who wants to install the OS \ configure e-mail\ add gnucash\ add music tools\ bookmark wholesale plumbing parts Web 2.0 sales pages \ bookmark his banks web page and be able to Google the occasional "how to" on some new gadget.
Does that sort of user, install an OS at all? Don't they just take what they get on the machine pre-installed?
"I heard they made a new release, what was wrong with the old one? Can I trust it? Do we need to upgrade me?
"Rolling Release" with software packages getting upgraded, keeping most users on same version avoids that issue. In general, a lot of the new Installations of 11.1 have been of the "because it's there" variety, something newer has come out, and folk don't like to be on last years 'model'. Many are upgrading too early and being disappointed, leading to much vocal comment in forum and email lists.
So I must waste time compiling and if I'm doing it in front of the customer and something goes wrong or takes to long, my customer thinks I'm an idiot and that Linux software is to much of a pain because he could have gotten Quickbooks installed on his own by now. I tried to warn the project of this issue when the discussion to terminate the 10.1 repo was on the table.
So SLE does not include all the packages it might, which leads to installing openSUSE rpm's, which later become unsupported?
Basically if we don't build a path for the average guy to either buy SLED and install what he needs throughout it's lifetime(aka maintain the openSUSE equivalent application repo)or use an openSUSE for long enough to feel he gets his money's worth, (because I charge to install and support) he stays on XP or worse wants Ubuntu.
As I understand it, SLE has a subsciption model for even security updates, acting effectively as a rent. Generally such "average guy" have been provided with security updates free of charge, automatically downloaded and installed, yet still too many Windows systems do not get patched. Unsupported SLE systems in such hands might become attractive targets for worms and other malware.
My IBM r51 laptop runs well with 11.0 and it probably will through the whole series, but what if it doesn't. what if 11.1 won't load? What do I do, if I stay on 11.0 and in 1-2 years I decide to re-purpose the laptop from my current use of testing and developing openSIS to just correspondence and billing , will I be able to find the GNUCash package then? Will my admittedly aging 1.5 Ghz laptop be useless even though it runs well and suffers no external damage. This is the target for the ideal that computers need not be obsoleted merely due to software availability or because they offer an older processing platform.
I've installed 11.1-RC1 on machine with dual 450 Mhz CPU (also 1Ghz single only 256MiB RAM), and it runs fine; however without workrounds, it can't boot the install CD. The install CD kernel is the key there, and the drivers configured in it. In a commercial environment, however, I would look to consolidate such a server machine onto newer, faster hardware for reliability and power consumption reasons. Machines like that, won't "just work" if most of the wider alpha & beta release testing is done in Virtual Boxes, and modern laptop and desktop machines. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org