Dne pondělí 8. července 2024 22:28:16, SELČ, Jeff Mahoney napsal(a):
On 7/8/24 16:05, Lukáš Krejza wrote:
The more I am observing the situation between SUSE and openSUSE for last let's say 5 years, the more I would like to know the people behind some decisions. In my experiences, it was always some business guy with opinions like:
"We are hosting and developing OBS for them, what else do they want?"
There have certainly been some changes within SUSE in the past 5 years, but the people doing the technical work within SUSE and within the openSUSE community haven't changed much.
Yeah, the technical people are not the problem most of the time :)
(words "them" and "they" are important in that sentence, since I remember times, where SUSE was referring to openSUSE community as "us")
Within BCL, which develops and delivers our Linux products, the community isn't "them" or "us." The community is bigger than SUSE and we are a part of it. There are obviously aspects of running a business where we must act independently of the community, but we're still committed to fostering it and contributing to it.
I agree and hope it will remain
I must say, I understand SUSE less and less, and it emotionally hurts me. I know there are some amazing guys who value community (Lubos among others), but to me, it just looks that SUSE wants to keep advantage of the community work, while not having to handle the hassle of protecting "our" trademarks and who knows what else. What will come next? Deprecate "factory first" policy? Be like RedHat?
It's not so much the "hassle" of protecting trademarks, though that's part of it. It's more about the confusion between where the lines between SUSE and openSUSE are both from within SUSE and outside of it. Some of it takes the form of constant confusion on forums and Bugzilla from SUSE users expecting support from the openSUSE community. Some of it takes the form of some people viewing openSUSE as an extension of SUSE over which we have control.
As the leader of the Linux Systems org, which is home to some 230 developers who all contribute to openSUSE in some way, I can say that the Factory First policy is still policy. Like any policy, it is occasionally violated, but it's also swiftly fixed when it is. There has been no talk of changing that and I wouldn't support it if there was.
-Jeff
Since I am against the foundation effort (and have expressed that along with my opinion on Richard's proposal in a thread "Why separate foundation?" on this list 9. 1. 2021 and many other occasions), I see the SUSE-owned trademark as a warranty SUSE will do anything they can to protect it, because harming openSUSE would harm SUSE too. Does SUSE think openSUSE is doing their "brand" a bad name? If not, the reasons for rebranding were not strong enough IMHO. If yes, please let us know how and where. Yes there is bigger and bigger disconnection between SUSE and openSUSE, so SUSE's move is to "propose" openSUSE name change instead of trying to tighten the connection again and help each other again? Breakup instead of conversation? Well played SUSE, well played. Can't you see where this will go? In case openSUSE and SUSE are in equal relationship, we can "propose" things too, no? - I would like to propose SUSE to rename SLES instead. It's too long anyway. Also, for more serious proposals on how to deal with the "crysis" in openSUSE nowadays: - Drop Leap (yes) (yes, really) - Drop the board and replace with a new model. Can be done with help of SUSE ofc (but does not need to be). Unless we can get back people like Adrian :) Are you trying to make implication, that there are not RHEL users asking for support in Fedora support channels? Really? Also, are you all really showing RHEL as the shiny example of how you do it correctly? Regards, Gfs