Sorry, clicked send prematurely, fully reply below: On 2023-12-11 11:44, Thorsten Bro | openSUSE Member wrote:
Any changes to these Trademark Guidelines can only be accomplished after negotiations with SUSE, as the actual owners of the openSUSE Marks.
Really? Where is this written? Might the community see the paperwork between SUSE and openSUSE about trademark agreements? Does it include the Artwork/Logo explicitly? Please be transparent on this one.
It's not written, but a fact of life and history. SUSE own the trademarks and ultimately control how they are used.
One of the primary reasons the SUSE appointed Chairperson to the Board carries veto power is to ensure nothing slips through the cracks between the Board's execution of the Trademark Guidelines and SUSE's interests as owners of the Marks.
True is - SUSE is the owner of the Trademark openSUSE. But at least for the German Trademark register, it is only registered as "Wortmarke" (wording trademark) called openSUSE see [1] I refer to my DISCLAIMER again, but as far as I could research, there is no such thing as a "Bildmarke" (picture trademark) for openSUSE - means there is no trademark of any Logo that SUSE holds for openSUSE - that's why I asked for the paperwork between SUSE and the openSUSE project. Maybe there is a definition how the wording trademark is allowed to use, maybe there is a defined logo as well. But without knowing the details, it is all a big MAYBE. In fact, if there is only a wording trademark and the project is allowed to use this by the trademark guidelines. Than the Board can decide - together with all community members - to change the Logo of the project at any time. It has nothing to do with any trademark violations than.
[1] https://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/registerhabm?AKZ=004946729
the openSUSE logo is a trademark registered in the US https://trademarks.justia.com/857/01/opensuse-85701835.html As SUSE LLC is the primary legal entity of SUSE under which all sub-entites operate, that makes perfect sense The above registration superseded the original "two colour" openSUSE mark, which was registered earlier https://trademarks.justia.com/786/90/opensuse-78690711.html
Changing the Project's logo WILL require changes to the above guidelines, either to include the new logo as a new trademark (hence my questions about whether SUSE is interlocked on that matter), or to fundamentally change the relationship between SUSE, openSUSE, and the openSUSE Marks.
I question this, because there seems to be no SUSE-owned trademark for any artwork relating to openSUSE - there seems to be only a Wortmarke.
As said above, the image mark is also registered. The Trademark guidelines also reference the Artwork page which details how the logo must not be altered: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Artwork_brand#Things_to_Avoid
I think Gerald needs to be involved at this point in his capacity as Chairperson and make sure that openSUSE is not putting the integrity of our Trademarks at risk. I think we need a firm commitment from SUSE to support, fund, and legally make real, any decision the community makes on this topic. In fact I think we needed that commitment before running ahead with any poll, but that's water under the bridge now.
Sure let's even blow up the topic and involve SUSE lawyers.
Honestly, if the project does a voting - and I don't say this voting was done perfect - as we heard a lot of criticism already - and the community decides on a new Logo. Than the board should follow that will and adapt the Trademark guidelines. Of course the board has to keep that aligned with whatever paperwork with SUSE exists about trademark usage - BUT I guess SUSE likes openSUSE as a project and as a community, because that is what all products are built upon. So what you state here is a quite theoretical approach, that SUSE would like to sue or punish the openSUSE project, for choosing a new logo.
SUSE's lawyers must be involved, we're talking about changing, diluting, or otherwise undermining THEIR trademark which THEY own and THEY have ultimate legal rights over. Sure, we the community have the right to express opinions too, but I really think we need SUSE on board and need to be very clear about what changes they're willing to consider before messing with something we only use at their pleasure -- Richard Brown Distributions Architect SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, Frankenstraße 146, D-90461 Nuremberg, Germany (HRB 36809, AG Nürnberg) Managing Directors/Geschäftsführer: Ivo Totev, Andrew McDonald, Werner Knoblich