On Thu, 11 Apr 2024 12:38:45 +0930, Simon Lees wrote:
That is a gross misunderstanding of any of my statements, presuming its me that you are referencing. I by no means believe that behavior that goes against the CoC should be tolerated or allowed. What we seem to be discussing is what language beyond the CoC should be allowed in our "Social" channels.
The "social" channels are still part of the community, Simon. I recently had cause to ban a member from the forums because he decided to take a run at the GNOME developers in the "Open Chat" section. When called out about it, declared the space as having some sort of "woke agenda" and threw a tantrum in public. The forums Terms & Conditions predate the CoC, but the CoC codifies a lot of things that we specifically have included for years - including: --- snip --- Always Be Civil Nothing sabotages a healthy conversation like rudeness: Be civil. Don’t post anything that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive, or hate speech. * Keep it clean. Don’t post anything obscene or sexually explicit. * Respect each other. Don’t harass or grief anyone, impersonate people, or expose their private information. * Respect our forum. Don’t post spam or otherwise vandalize the forum. --- snip --- (taken from https://forums.opensuse.org/faq) So, when someone takes it upon themselves to post obscene or abusive content there, we take action, and we see that as being in line with the openSUSE Code of Conduct. Now, I don't frequent the IRC channels a whole lot. But it seems to me that if obscenity is a way of life in this particular channel, and the channel operator is not only not doing anything about it, but is actively encouraging it by their own actions, then that is a problem for the project - and it is not in keeping with the idea that we should be our best selves. The idea that the project proudly hosts a venue where people are constantly and routinely making flatulence and defecation jokes reflects *very* poorly on the project - and I would argue by extension on SUSE (as SUSE's name is part of the project's name). There's a saying in the documentation world: Every page is page one. What this means is that *everywhere* is the front door. This is true for communities as well - whether it's an easily found "front door" or not. If this is a place where people who get offtopic in IRC channels that are for support get sent, that seems problematic to me. Make an offtopic comment in a support venue and get sent to a channel where toilet humour is the norm. That's just a wonderful way to introduce someone to the idea that they should stay "on-topic" in the support channels. Is this *really* what's best for the community? I sure don't think so. IRC is explicitly included in the Scope for the Code of Conduct. We don't have a need for a place for so-called "locker-room talk". If that portion of our "community" really feels the need to have a place like that, they can certainly create one that isn't *sponsored* by SUSE and the openSUSE project. IRC is a big place. But having a space where this is considered acceptable behavior *by the project* is problematic for the other community areas, because it creates a double standard. -- Jim Henderson Please keep on-topic replies on the list so everyone benefits