Given that 12.2 slipped by 2 months, and the development process for 12.3 is "to be discussed", what schedule are we working on towards 12.3 at the moment? Every time I've been involved in a project without a schedule, we've had a long period of (probably highly satisfying for developers) of 'undirected hacking' followed by crisis, followed by a rush to 'get it out before people forget who we are' which inevitably had some fallout (I'm thinking of the period leading up to KDE 4.0 here ;). So I'd like to start the discussion now before we lose a month waiting to discuss it at osc12, where only a fraction of the active members of the project are is going to be present anyway. You don't want everything to be decided by German Engineers* for you do you? Some ideas to start the ball rolling: * openSUSE 12.2 original schedule + 8 months = openSUSE 12.2 actual release + 4 months = Do a short cycle and release in March 2013, essentially 12.2 + bugfixes and updates * openSUSE 12.2 actual release + 8 months = May 2013, business as usual, using a fixed process to solve the problems that caused the 12.2 slip * Extend the release cycle keeping same process and longer stabilization period (effective 12.2 release process; leads to shipping 'outdated' stuff) * Change the process to plan more features in advance (as much as this is realistic given we mostly ship what our upstreams deliver) and work together to achieve these Please, save your 'my vote is for this' type of replies. And if you're an armchair general willing to type paragraphs of email here but not a single OBS checkin, meeting participaton or wiki update to 12.3, go do something more pleasurable with your fingers instead. This discussion is not about your favourite kind of icecream, as if that will change anything. This need a reasoned discussion on what to do in future, to get a majority of the actors in the project to agree to act together, and then action. Otherwise we will default to an arbitrary schedule, several months of undirected hacking and taking what comes from upstream, reactive release management to get the result bootable and not too likely to blow up in users' faces, and frantic analysis of the brew by -marketing to make it sound like a consistent whole offering an attractive narrative of improvement (Guess what I did for the last few weeks). Will (* Something Pascal was moping about on IRC last week, I'm hoping to tempt him out of his cave) -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Board, Booster, KDE Developer SUSE LINUX GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5 90409 Nürnberg Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org