On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:40:18 +0200 Jos Poortvliet <jos@opensuse.org> wrote:
On Tuesday 25 September 2012 14:01:53 Stephan Kulow wrote:
On 25.09.2012 13:52, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
I only test the beta and the RC's. I don't see why that would change if there are changes to the release cycle.
And this is what most people do - now you can calculate how many months without much testing we add to factory - and remember that tumbleweed takes things from factory, so basically the testing would happen in tumbleweed -> breaking things.
But the goal is a more stable end result, not a more stable factory, is it? I mean, Factory will never be stable unless we'd never put rc's and beta's etc in there and even then it'd be problematic. But I guess you argue that a more stable factory leads to more stable results.
Well, it should be that way, but [1].
Ok, so you say for development, 6-8 month cycle = better.
For users, I'd argue, a 1 year cycle is better (provided we keep delivering stuff via OBS). But that's more of a marketing thing then - that we might bet more users and thus, in time, more testers and developers is not guaranteed.
[1] As Stephan said, Tumbleweed is feeding from Factory, which is interesting phenomen. People use Tumbleweed and decline to use Factory?! It seems that all boils down to the stability of a base system. In other words people actually test all, but that base system. Which gives few ideas. Create base system with: * very basic graphic stack, to avoid desktop bugs interference. * communication applications configured for development channels, with CLI counter parts working, all "hidden" under help command or icon. * helper scripts to debug it and post results to paste site or bugzilla; half of debugging on IRC is pulling out needed info from users that have no idea what they should post. Wiki article doesn't count as help in case of network problems, and even in offline form it is introducing long delay between problem and its solution. * verbose bootup report, but not like now an illegible, intangible mess of messages, but sorted in groups, and if possible clickable. * easy fallback; something like part of Factory installation, add small stable system if there is no other installation. * Factory system update, should be possible from used or stable system; which will make broken boot not so serious problem. * Ability to check does Factory boot from VirtualBox. All above will make possible for inexperienced users to participate in Factory development. Factory system that will not boot will be scare of the past. It will help just about everyone; users without big skills and developers. Users will be able to discuss problems and file quality reports without knowing gdb and ton of other utilities. Developers will get quality bug reports after problems were discussed with experienced users avoiding data collection phase. I know that can be a lot of work, but it is time to sort things out, otherwise when old do-it-yourself users and openSUSE diehards retire, there will be no more user base. As usually lack of time doesn't give me chance to sort ideas and create at least some simple template for user directory that will at least make IRC, mail lists and Forums one click away. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org