[opensuse-ppc] No More Official PPC Distro

Larry Stotler

25 Nov 2009 25 Nov '09

13:30

Just got this answer from a bugzilla posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from Michael Loeffler about why there wasn't a PPC version of 11.2: "we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics). Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build an openSUSE ppc distribution." So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive? With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of that is going to be either). I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine. So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC. Thanx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

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Thomas Nielsen

25 Nov 25 Nov

13:42

This is a real shame (please ignore my email domain - I am writing as a user) i loved OpenSUSE on my Sony PS3, and it was almost there with Xfce (and I still have an Intel X25 SSD planned for the PS3). But it looks almost like binfodder now. To my experience YDL is that they always are a bit behind in the kernel versions etc, so its no fun :-/ Game over. Thomas

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On 11/25/2009 at 2:30 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:

Peter Czanik

13:54

Hello, 2009-11-25 14:30 keltezéssel, Larry Stotler írta:

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I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

And on some EFIKA machines (Freescale MPC5200) and an MPC8610 developer system...

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So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC.

Right now only some occasional testing, as my second son was born this spring so most of my time is dedicated to my family. I'll hopefully have more time from next spring... Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Luciano Mannucci

14:15

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So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive? Well, it *prooves* that the distribution is portable. If something new and good emerges hardwarewise, I know I will be able to switch without changing distribution. That said, another thing I foresee is that I'll personally have to switch all my Apple PPC machines to linux sooner or later, for leopard macos is becoming solwer and slower on that platform. Of course, once I foind another suitable distro, I'll swtitch to

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:30:28 -0500 Larry Stotler wrote: that one all my Intel machines too, not to have to follow upgrade evolution twice. And yes, that's a pity, it was such a good quality distribution... Cheers, luciano, SuSe Linux user since 5.2. -- /"\ /Via A. Salaino, 7 - 20144 Milano (Italy) \ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / PHONE : +39 2 485781 FAX: +39 2 48578250 X AGAINST HTML MAIL / E-MAIL: posthamster@sublink.sublink.ORG / \ AND POSTINGS / WWW: http://www.mannucci.ORG/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

14:24

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 03:15:25PM +0100, Luciano Mannucci wrote:

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On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:30:28 -0500 Larry Stotler wrote:

...
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive? Well, it *prooves* that the distribution is portable. If something new and good emerges hardwarewise, I know I will be able to switch without changing distribution. That said, another thing I foresee is that I'll personally have to switch all my Apple PPC machines to linux sooner or later, for leopard macos is becoming solwer and slower on that platform. Of course, once I foind another suitable distro, I'll swtitch to that one all my Intel machines too, not to have to follow upgrade evolution twice. And yes, that's a pity, it was such a good quality distribution...

openSUSE 11.1 is still supported for 1.5 more years. And yes, someone else can of course pick it up! Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Richard (MQ)

14:36

Larry Stotler wrote:

...

So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC.

I've been using openSuSE on a 1999 G3 iMac (the iconic blue all-in-one model) plus a G3 'Lombard' laptop from the same era. OSL 11.1 runs well but if I'm honest neither machine is used much these days. The laptop keyboard is a bit iffy which doesn't help. We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills. Good luck with setting it all up -- Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Thomas Nielsen

15:06

Well let me add a few bits an pieces, that possibly everyone already knows, but for the few remaining, maybe it will make me look clever :-) There IS an 11.2 ppc iso here: http://powerpc.opensuse.org/factory/iso/ dated 14oct 2009 but only for the netinstall, but I do not see why it should work differently than the x86_64 netinstall, i recently successfully converted to a USB-netinstall using http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ There is still a /PS3 directory with this in it: -rw-r--r-- 1 98 98 4189897 Jan 11 2009 otheros.bld so I think many doors are open - only the future is uncertain - as always and now that i have it downloadet - why not . . . . . . Thomas

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On 11/25/2009 at 3:36 PM, "Richard (MQ)" wrote:

Larry Stotler wrote:

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So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC.

Larry Stotler

15:07

I've updated the POWER@SUSE page to reflect this change: http://en.opensuse.org/POWER%40SUSE Maybe we can get a list of hardware that people have used openSUSE on. I, like many others, have ran openSUSE on my PowerMac hardware but I don't use any of the machines on any kind of regular basis. So, I, like others, have to consider how much time and support I can offer to continue PPC support as well. I have the following PowerMac machines and the last version of openSUSE I used on them: Powerbook Wallstreet G3/266 - v11.0 PowerMac G4/466(Digital Audio) - Installing factory now PowerMac G3(2) one with a G4 - openSUSE 10.3 PowerMac G3 All-In-One G3/266(and G) - openSUSE 10,2 PowerMac 6500 603e/225 - Successfully installed v11.0/Beta 3 (SLOW - 128MB RAM Max) PowerMac 9600/300 G4/700 - openSUSE 11.0 I have other PowerPPC based macs(6400, Powerbook 3400c, etc) that just don't have the resources to run the current openSUSE release. I've found that a faster G3 or a G4 is definately a need for running Linux on PPC. And, there is always NetBSD. I've played with their PPC ports as well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Peter Czanik

20:01

Hello, 2009-11-25 15:36 keltezéssel, Richard (MQ) írta:

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We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

As long as Linux boots on the board in any form, it should not be difficult. My first mpc5121e devel board only had serial port and ethernet functional, and after a few days work, openSUSE booted on it :-) Basically there are two possibilities: - if the current SuSE kernel can't be patched to boot on the board, then one can compile everything in a monster monolithic kernel to support installation and booting. This approach worked with both openSUSE and Debian/Ubuntu on the mpc5121e and other boards. - if the current SuSE kernel can be configured and/or patched to boot on a given board, then it is more elegant to use SuSE kernel sources with default config + additional hw support (I used mkinstallinitrd or something similar, I can't recall any more). This is what I used for the mpc8610 developer system Of course, one can skip creating an installer, when there is an installed PPC system available. Just make a copy to NFS and boot a kernel from TFTP. Possibilites are endless :-) Once factory is synced out again and I got a little time, I try to port it to my mpc8610 (G4 on lots of steroids :-) ) system, as that is my fastest PPC machine at the moment. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Richard (MQ)

21:04

Hi Peter On 25/11/09 20:01, Peter Czanik wrote:

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Hello,

2009-11-25 15:36 keltezéssel, Richard (MQ) írta:

...
We use a lot of PPC based embedded controllers for work (variously running OS-9 or VxWorks) and I've long entertained plans to get it onto one of them, this would be some way from trivial though as there's neither a CD nor USB! This project would be with a colleague who also has a G3 iMac as well as coding skills.

As long as Linux boots on the board in any form, it should not be difficult. My first mpc5121e devel board only had serial port and ethernet functional, and after a few days work, openSUSE booted on it :-) Basically there are two possibilities: - if the current SuSE kernel can't be patched to boot on the board, then one can compile everything in a monster monolithic kernel to support installation and booting. This approach worked with both openSUSE and Debian/Ubuntu on the mpc5121e and other boards. - if the current SuSE kernel can be configured and/or patched to boot on a given board, then it is more elegant to use SuSE kernel sources with default config + additional hw support (I used mkinstallinitrd or something similar, I can't recall any more). This is what I used for the mpc8610 developer system Of course, one can skip creating an installer, when there is an installed PPC system available. Just make a copy to NFS and boot a kernel from TFTP. Possibilites are endless :-) Once factory is synced out again and I got a little time, I try to port it to my mpc8610 (G4 on lots of steroids :-) ) system, as that is my fastest PPC machine at the moment. Bye, CzP

Thanks for the hints - these systems all do have network and RS232 terminal, in some cases not much else. It could be an interesting challenge! -- Cheers Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Klaas.

15:53

Op 25-nov-09 schreef Larry Stotler:

...

Just got this answer from a bugzilla posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from Michael Loeffler about why there wasn't a PPC version of 11.2:

...

"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics). Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build an openSUSE ppc distribution."

...

So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive? With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of that is going to be either).

...

I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

...

So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC.

Thank you for your effort. As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support I selected openSuse. There is a G4 Mini - running openSuse 10.3 and regularly updated. Not used every day but still very well on this hardwar. There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps reloading. As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon as available. In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is it just names like that because it is unclear what the status of the code is? Or some other reason? By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC in their latest announcements I think. greetings, Klaas Punt -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

Stephen Michael Kellat

16:20

Sitting at a 7400 G4 as I type this, I can say that there remains some interest. The biggest area would be in revitalizing old machines that were otherwise disposed of as excess. Schools trying to wring a small amount of worth out of older machines would also benefit. Today's world is one where the x86 architecture is not absolutely dominant. We're already seeing in the smartphone market the near dominance of ARM architecture in devices. As those devices are becoming essentially small portable computers first with telephone capability a welded-on after-thought, the potential install base is becoming broader. Strangely enough, Android is capable of running on any Power Architecture architecture based handsets although I am not aware of any out there right now. Will there be a "mass market" in a few years with a single architecture dominating? I don't know. Right now, the signs for the future are uncertain. Keeping a PPC legacy intact at least provides good practice for any potential world where no single architecture dominates. Stephen Michael Kellat, MSLS Sheffield Township, Ohio skellat@fastmail.net On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:53:51 +0100, "Klaas." said:

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Op 25-nov-09 schreef Larry Stotler:

...
Just got this answer from a bugzilla posting(https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=557580) from Michael Loeffler about why there wasn't a PPC version of 11.2:

...
"we (Novell/SUSE employees) won't provide a ppc distribution anymore. The effort for such a code stream is not justified by 0.3% out of all installations (see Distribution of architecture at http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics). Nevertheless we will support anyone who'd like to take over the task to build an openSUSE ppc distribution."

...
So, what's the interest in trying to keep the PowerPC port alive? With such a small user base, I agree it doesn't make sense for them to continue to do it(although I was under the impression that the POWER port of SLEx was based on openSUSE so I'm not sure what the status of that is going to be either).

...
I have several viable Powermacs that can run openSUSE. Peter Czanik uses it on a Pegasos PPC machine.

...
So, what's the interest? I'm not sure how much help I can be other than testing but I'd like to find out who else is using or wanting to use openSUSE on PPC.

Thank you for your effort.

As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support I selected openSuse.

There is a G4 Mini - running openSuse 10.3 and regularly updated. Not used every day but still very well on this hardwar. There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps reloading.

As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon as available. In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is it just names like that because it is unclear what the status of the code is? Or some other reason?

By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC in their latest announcements I think.

greetings, Klaas Punt

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Larry Stotler

19:36

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Klaas. wrote:

...

Thank you for your effort. As I am looking for a road forward in view of the fact that Apple dropped their PPC machines from support I selected openSuse. There is a G4 Mini - running openSuse 10.3 and regularly updated. Not used every day but still very well on this hardwar. There is a G5 Dual 1.8 waiting to be useful again, and it has a 11.1 installation but not good. The desktop keeps reloading.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of 11.1. I'm still running 11.0 on my machine. I've installed 11.2 on my son's but he likes KDE4 and I don't.

...

As for going to 11.2, all the iso's I downloaded wouldn't boot. I'll wait and try the next factory distro as soon as available. In the meantime I am unclear about the factory process. Is it just names like that because it is unclear what the status of the code is? Or some other reason?

Factory is the developement branch. All the Milstones(Betas and Alphas) and snapshots of Facotry at a specific point. So are the Release Candidates. The final version is split off from Factory before the release. Then Factory moves on and becomes the development platform for the next version. So, while 11.2 has kernel 2.30.x(or whatever), Factory will move on to 2.31.x whatever.

...

By the way, I have used YDL but they don't mention PPC in their latest announcements I think.

Yellow Dog is POWER/PPC ONLY. Always has been. They are selling machines made by their parent company that are G5 based. Power Workstation - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/powerstation/specs.html Cell based PCIe board - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/gigaaccel180/ IBM POWER Blades - http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/bladecenter/qs22/ Unfortunately, the Core2 and Core i7's are considered to be much faster overall than the G5's. The Real "Power" chips are the Power5 & Power6 and derivatives. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-ppc+help@opensuse.org

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Klaas.
Larry Stotler
Luciano Mannucci
Marcus Meissner
Peter Czanik
Richard (MQ)
Stephen Michael Kellat
Thomas Nielsen