[opensuse-packaging] Plan for python2-only packages
There are still a large number of packages in openSUSE:Factory that are python2-only. Some have not been touched upstream in years. We probably should start thinking about what to do with them. I think we should break python2-only packages into four categories: * Those that have python3 support that just hasn't been integrated should be updated. * Those that upstream has indicated has python3 support in the near-term roadmap should be kept as-is for now (or updated to the latest version). * Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period. * All others, including backports packages, should be moved to a new subproject, devel:languages:python:legacy since they won't need many updates or rebuilds. This project should be built but not published. What does everyone think of this plan? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
Todd Rme wrote:
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
I see no compelling reason to be so over-aggressive to PY2 code base. Ciao, Michael. P.S.: And yes, I know the dates and Python clock web site, blah... P.P.S.: And yes, I know 2to3 (which might help in some trivial cases). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
I see no compelling reason to be so over-aggressive to PY2 code base.
Ciao, Michael.
P.S.: And yes, I know the dates and Python clock web site, blah...
P.P.S.: And yes, I know 2to3 (which might help in some trivial cases).
What would you propose we do instead? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
I see no compelling reason to be so over-aggressive to PY2 code base.
What would you propose we do instead?
Keep those packages. Ciao, Michael. P.S.: Personally I'm pretty much frustrated regarding the Python stuff in openSUSE. Although I still have a large PY2 code base I've updated in the past many Python modules also for PY3 even before the single-spec approach. With all these confusing changes I gave up on this and focus on doing my own private stuff now. P.P.S.: Helping maintaining python2 updates would be easier if all the patches were better documented. P.P.P.S.: After all this repo moving packages cannot be found anymore in search form on https://build.opensuse.org => greatly degraded usability of all this. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
I see no compelling reason to be so over-aggressive to PY2 code base.
What would you propose we do instead?
Keep those packages.
Ciao, Michael.
P.S.: Personally I'm pretty much frustrated regarding the Python stuff in openSUSE. Although I still have a large PY2 code base I've updated in the past many Python modules also for PY3 even before the single-spec approach. With all these confusing changes I gave up on this and focus on doing my own private stuff now.
P.P.S.: Helping maintaining python2 updates would be easier if all the patches were better documented.
P.P.P.S.: After all this repo moving packages cannot be found anymore in search form on https://build.opensuse.org => greatly degraded usability of all this.
The openSUSE python team isn't very large. We had a dozen people or so to maintain almost 3,000 packages. Without the singlespec approach, that would be almost 6,000. Many of these have version-specific interdependencies, architecure-specific issues, new requirements for python2 backports, and related breakage that requires constant attention. And we have the impending lack of upstream support for python 2, which we need to be ready for. Add to that random bitrot-related breakage in hundreds of packages that have absolutely zero chance of being fixed upstream adds a large burden to such a small group. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
Ciao, Michael.
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with.
I translate this PR statement to more clear words: "I have my own agenda and therefore I don't care about other contributers needs." So why do you wonder that not more people want to help? Ciao, Michael. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/21/2018 12:58 PM, Michael Ströder wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with.
I translate this PR statement to more clear words: "I have my own agenda and therefore I don't care about other contributers needs."
I'd say that is enough in that direction. We all know how it is when things are frustrating but finger pointing does NOT help. There was ample discussion about the single-spec, which BTW was not driven by Todd. ------ My thoughts are: We do need to evict Python 2 only packages from Factory. That doesn't have to happen overnight but it is inevitable. As far as d:l:p is concerned I think having Python 2 only packages for a while is fine and we can define what "a while means". Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Distinguished Architect LINUX Team Lead Public Cloud rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 05/21/2018 12:58 PM, Michael Ströder wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with.
I translate this PR statement to more clear words: "I have my own agenda and therefore I don't care about other contributers needs."
I'd say that is enough in that direction.
Well, of course you can wipe away all that. But then don't complain about lack of contributors. Ciao, Michael. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 05/21/2018 01:16 PM, Michael Ströder wrote:
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 05/21/2018 12:58 PM, Michael Ströder wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with.
I translate this PR statement to more clear words: "I have my own agenda and therefore I don't care about other contributers needs."
I'd say that is enough in that direction.
Well, of course you can wipe away all that. But then don't complain about lack of contributors.
But apparently you do not care to contribute; you had no constructive comment about the opinion stated about handling Python 2 packages. Your primary interest here appears to be to complain.That, at least IMHO is not a contribution. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Distinguished Architect LINUX Team Lead Public Cloud rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
Robert Schweikert wrote:
On 05/21/2018 01:16 PM, Michael Ströder wrote:
Well, of course you can wipe away all that. But then don't complain about lack of contributors.
But apparently you do not care to contribute;
You're plain wrong. Ciao, Michel. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 21 May 2018 12:52:37 -0400 Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
The openSUSE python team isn't very large.
So why are you frustating contributors effectively reducing the set of contributors?
Ciao, Michael.
We have been streamlining the project and development workflow to make it easier to maintain long-term. The previous situation was simply unsustainable, especially with such large upstream changes that we need to deal with.
Correct. Moreover, it is just not the maintainers of d:l:p. Maintaining these also require resources of the opensuse review team and release managers. Given the number of *new* packages coming into Factory, (which is a healthy sign for openSUSE), we are doing our best to keep up with the steady growth of Factory/TW. +1 for Todd's plan and if resources allow, some sort of d:l:p:legacy repo. Thanks, Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 21 May 2018 12:10:34 -0400 Todd Rme <toddrme2178@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, May 21, 2018 at 12:06 PM, Michael Ströder <michael@stroeder.com> wrote:
Todd Rme wrote:
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
I see no compelling reason to be so over-aggressive to PY2 code base.
Ciao, Michael.
P.S.: And yes, I know the dates and Python clock web site, blah...
P.P.S.: And yes, I know 2to3 (which might help in some trivial cases).
What would you propose we do instead?
*Wild blue-sky idea* Port to Tauthon? It doesn't look to be disappearing any time soon. Active, lots of contributors and commits. https://github.com/naftaliharris/tauthon -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 21 May 2018 16:31:24 +0200, Todd Rme wrote:
There are still a large number of packages in openSUSE:Factory that are python2-only. Some have not been touched upstream in years. We probably should start thinking about what to do with them.
I think we should break python2-only packages into four categories:
* Those that have python3 support that just hasn't been integrated should be updated.
* Those that upstream has indicated has python3 support in the near-term roadmap should be kept as-is for now (or updated to the latest version).
* Those that are python2-only and have not seen upstream activity since 2016 should be dropped from openSUSE:Factory and dropped from devel:languages:python after a two-week warning period.
How are these warned? Warning on ML doesn't help, as not every maintainer reads it. At best, it should be reported via Bugzilla and assigned to each maintainer. Another concern in this proposal is that the package dependency isn't considered. What if a dropped package is required by lots of other packages? The warning should be reached to all these relevant packages; otherwise you'll bust the build of all of them out of sudden. Last but not least, IMO, two weeks are too short for such a transition. One may have a vacation for two weeks easily if living in Europe :) If it were about fixing some breakage, shorter is better, of course. But this isn't about it. Rather it may break things potentially. Better to handle more carefully. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Liam Proven -
Michael Ströder -
Peter Linnell -
Robert Schweikert -
Takashi Iwai -
Todd Rme