Suggestion What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer. Best regards, Marcel
Marcel, On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Suggestion
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer.
... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;) Regards Christoph
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieb Christoph Thiel:
Marcel,
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Suggestion
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer.
... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;)
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-) Marcel
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 04:43:34PM +0200, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieb Christoph Thiel:
Marcel,
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Suggestion
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer.
... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;)
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-)
But incitement is still not covered by freedom of speech. Obviously you can speak about this stuff whether it is legal or not as long as you do not urge someone to do something that is illegal. For instance it is illegal in Germany to hire someone for a foreign army. I still could talk about the theoretical option that you join the Foreign Legion but if I started to show you incentives to actually do so, I might get some trouble. Thus to protect myself from being suspected to have hired you for them I will not discuss the pros and cons for joining the Foreign Legion because someone could claim then that I actively hired you. I am not aware of any country where incitement is a legal action. Robert -- Robert Schiele Tel.: +49-621-181-2214 Dipl.-Wirtsch.informatiker mailto:rschiele@uni-mannheim.de
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 17:04 schrieb Robert Schiele:
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 04:43:34PM +0200, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieb Christoph Thiel:
Marcel,
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Suggestion
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer.
... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;)
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-)
But incitement is still not covered by freedom of speech. Obviously you can speak about this stuff whether it is legal or not as long as you do not urge someone to do something that is illegal.
For instance it is illegal in Germany to hire someone for a foreign army. I still could talk about the theoretical option that you join the Foreign Legion but if I started to show you incentives to actually do so, I might get some trouble. Thus to protect myself from being suspected to have hired you for them I will not discuss the pros and cons for joining the Foreign Legion because someone could claim then that I actively hired you.
I am not aware of any country where incitement is a legal action.
I don't see, where is the incitement in discussing the legal problems with software repositories, but I agree with you, that incitement is not covered by freedom of speech. "This stuff is illegal here, let's put it on a server far far away, where it's not illegal" it not an incitement for me. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 05:26:42PM +0200, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
"This stuff is illegal here, let's put it on a server far far away, where it's not illegal" it not an incitement for me.
That in itself not. Telling what the server is, giving the URL and even sayong how to find it is illegal. e.g. they can not putr links towards that server. e.g. it is well known how to play DVDs on Linux, however it is impossibnle to tell how this is done or to tell how to look for it on the internet. Now if you were looking for makeSUSEdvd, I can nicely tell you the exact URL and I even can tell you to enter makeSUSEdvd in google and look for it. If it were something illegal, it would be illegal to do something similar. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
Hi, JFYI, it seems that the copyright and license issues will be solved quite soon. The Novell Legal department, Michael Löffler and me had a very good call and we all agree in general where we want to go (lowering the restrictions). We do only work on the exact wording atm. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieb Christoph Thiel:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer. ... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;)
Yeah ;) Well, Marcel, we actually already though a little about that. It would definately be required if we want to have repositories available e.g. as a choicelist in YaST2, as it seems pretty clear that Novell cannot endorse linking to repositories that include e.g. mplayer, mad or lame (not even to mention libdvdcss, but noone is taking the potential risk of having it in a repository). You'll always have to know where to get that repository. Maybe we could get in touch with the PLF folks (Penguin Liberation Front). They are hosting such packages (amongst others), e.g.: http://plf.acnova.com/mandriva/free/src/ (and search for libdvd..., you know ;)) (BTW, that mirror of theirs is in.. Singapore :)) Although I suppose that they just host it and don't care about potential legal issues. They'll most probably be at FOSDEM again, I'll make sure to talk with'em. Marcel, are you sure that hosting such stuff is less problematic in .ch ? Do you have some place to host it ? :D
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-)
Tell that to heise ;)
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 17:11 schrieb Pascal Bleser:
Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
Am Freitag, 14. Oktober 2005 16:25 schrieb Christoph Thiel:
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:
What about making a special repo for legally grey-zone packages? I'd like to put packman, guru and other packages on our CDs /DVDs often, but have to sort them out the heavily. You want your repos to be included in OpenSUSE, so that users just have to klick to enable the installation source. With a special repo for all the half-legal and illegal stuff (e.g on a server in a non-EU country, like Switzerland ;-), live would perhaps be easyier and safer.
... don't expect comments on this on a public mailinglist ;)
Yeah ;)
Well, Marcel, we actually already though a little about that. It would definately be required if we want to have repositories available e.g. as a choicelist in YaST2, as it seems pretty clear that Novell cannot endorse linking to repositories that include e.g. mplayer, mad or lame (not even to mention libdvdcss, but noone is taking the potential risk of having it in a repository). You'll always have to know where to get that repository. That's the point. Now as every package is within one big repositories, you risk to not be able to speek about this big on, just because of the 10-20 "black" packages.
Maybe we could get in touch with the PLF folks (Penguin Liberation Front). They are hosting such packages (amongst others), e.g.: http://plf.acnova.com/mandriva/free/src/ (and search for libdvd..., you know ;)) (BTW, that mirror of theirs is in.. Singapore :)) Although I suppose that they just host it and don't care about potential legal issues. They'll most probably be at FOSDEM again, I'll make sure to talk with'em. I don't know, if that's a good idea, because as you mentioned, they perhaps absolutely do not care about potential legal issues.
Marcel, are you sure that hosting such stuff is less problematic in .ch ? Of course it's not (exept of libdvd..., which you are still allowed to use). see http://computing.ee.ethz.ch/sepp/libdvd-1.0-ke.html
Do you have some place to host it ? :D My server is in Hungary, there still is ...... on it for download. I'm married and have two children, so I care about my future. But for me not discussing the whole problem, is like serving Windows...
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-)
Tell that to heise ;) At least, they did something. So we will perhaps soon know the border between black an white :-) Btw. Heise is still allowed to write about programs elliminating the copy protection, they just must not link them. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Marcel Hilzinger
Linux New Media AG Süskindstr. 4 D-81929 München Tel: +49 (89) 99 34 11 0 Fax: +49 (89) 99 34 11 99
On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 05:11:24PM +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
I thought, there is freedom of speech in Germany ;-)
Tell that to heise ;)
Also tell it tomost European countries. :-) In most European countries, freedom of speech has bounderies. Most of this has to do with spreading hate and/or lies. Wether or not this is a good/bad thing has no place here. houghi -- Quote correct (NL) http://www.briachons.org/art/quote/ Zitiere richtig (DE) http://www.afaik.de/usenet/faq/zitieren Quote correctly (EN) http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
participants (6)
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Adrian Schroeter
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Christoph Thiel
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houghi
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Marcel Hilzinger
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Pascal Bleser
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Robert Schiele