On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 08:01:54 +0800
Marguerite Su <i(a)marguerite.su> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 3:08 AM, Andreas Jaeger
No dead end - ask! ;) New packages should get introduced on
opensuse-factory first and as part of that the submitter can ask
what the best devel project would be - and then somebody can
volunteer and help if needed,
Sure. but that is what I call "a lot of pain".
I translated openSUSE into Chinese in two month,
30000+ items. but I
can just submit 200 line of KDE translations in a week. ...
In a few years all translations will be in :)
How do you count items? Even in lines of text it is huge.
And actually ML and IRC are the successful output of
last century. The
new generation prefers Instant messaging or social tools. ...
It is about informational capacity of MLs and IRC channels.
They are just too slow in reaction to query, and information transfer
speed is too low. Without external links you can't even have complex
answers with images, diagrams and videos.
New generation of Linux users is different type of users then last
century Linux fans.
Linux fans were technically inclined, often developers, needed only
hints to solve problems, and above all they wanted to play with Linux.
It is like car user that is hobby, or professional, mechanic in love
with its subject.
Modern Linux users don't want to know about Linux more then car driver
wants to know about car. When they are hit by a problem they want it
solved, without learning any bit more how-stuff-works. The only
difference between them and Windows, or MAC, users is that they want
ability to change oil, or replace broken part, but not farther then
I think there're a lot of crying about why we
developers don't show up
in forums.o.o or twitter.
There is, but it is actually symptom of underlying problems.
When advanced users can't help beginners, that means that they are lost
in all changes that happen. When they feel lost then they cry for help
from those with more knowledge - developers, but then comes in your
If you are only available to help through your mailbox
in front of
your home yard or the only one telephone in your office. That help
nearly means nothing in a so big world.
One developer can answer to one user, not to all that have a problem.
It is also unrealistic to expect that developers will do any good if
they try to help beginners. The language they speak is full of
expressions that they learned after few years of college and few more
practice. Translating that to daily language means explaining what
those special expressions mean, which will most likely pull in more
secondary explanations and finally mount to the unsolvable problem in
The only way to solve this is to have communication between developers
and halfway educated users, some kind of interest groups, or fandoms, so
that there is someone that can actually answer to all users that have a
problem, write wiki, make a movie.
Actually you made an assumption that the ones who can
offer help is
available through ML. The Chinese "team" page in zh.o.o only got 300+
views from we had wiki to now. After I added a gtalk group into it.
now its almost 3000+ views.
In short, I mean:
* Human help slows someone down if she's a powerful Google user.
* We can't force the potential contributors who never use a ML or IRC
in her life before to use that only to find out information which
should be documented.
Problem is also who is going to write that docs.
Example of the problem for systemd.
New thing to everybody.
Only few of developers understand it.
Docs that were written some time ago for unknown version of openSUSE
and systemd, appear to be misleading.
(Yesterday, on IRC, I was in position to guess what to do with
and user that was looking to set up
test system to check is his computer ready for update. User could not
get systemd running. It was missing some bit somewhere. )
Developer wrote docs once with no notion what they relate to and never
updated them. No one else has knowledge to keep docs up to date. What
It would be not a problem if that is only one subject, but that is how
it happens all over the wiki. It is more rule that docs are not checked
for validity when revision of underlying software is changed then
exception. In other words each developer, or software title, is missing
fans that will take care of details, or notify responsible person about
changes, so that developer can focus on software development, but docs
are updated when needed.
And also, having a layout doesn't compromise the
human help but
improves it. Because nowadays even maintainers don't know exactly the
purpose of every repositories. They need a reference to mention too.
Even if they know, they can't be available 24/7, so reference is must
have. If no one is available, at least Google will find it.
(Just checked some of http://en.opensuse.org/Special:LonelyPages
Google have them. )
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