On Wednesday 27 August 2008 16:56:54 Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 04:28:37PM -0300, James Oakley wrote:

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On Wednesday 27 August 2008 16:06:19 Christoph Thiel wrote:

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Hi everyone,

having maintained the following packages in Factory/STABLE for quite some time, I would like to get rid of them. Either by tranfering them to a maintainer inside SUSE/Novell, by moving them to Contrib (http://en.opensuse.org/Contrib/packages) or by dropping them completely.

If they end up having to go to Contrib, I'll happily take these, out of self-

interest:

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* duplicity * python-curl

Let's start with these tow, as they don't have any packages depending on them.

Ok.

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* python-kid

Goes togehter with repoview.

and with python-turbogears, which I maintain in devel:languages:python. I also use kid directly with CherryPy. This is a package I definitely do not want to see dropped.

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Also, if nobody else steps up for these, I'll take them as well, since I maintain a bunch of python-* packages in devel:languages:python anyway and

scanning an extra two shouldn't take too long:

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* python-GnuPG-Interface

Goes with duplicity.

Ok.

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* python-gpgme

Goes with yum.

Is there any interest in keeping yum, even in Contrib?

Summarizing, would you like to take at least:

duplicity python-curl python-GnuPG-Interface

for now and push them towards Contrib?

Sure, not a problem. -- James Oakley jfunk@funktronics.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 27 August 2008 17:24:10 Christoph Thiel wrote:

Alright, I have recently updated these packages to the lastes version. Please feel free to pull them from home:cthiel1 and/or factory.

Done. They are now in home:jimfunk -- James Oakley jfunk@funktronics.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 12:31:27PM -0700, Greg KH wrote:

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 03:06:19PM -0400, Christoph Thiel wrote:

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* offlineimap

I'll take this one, as I rely on it :)

Perfect, thanks! I'll assing the package to you in the pdb. Best, Christoph -- Christoph Thiel, Tech. Project Management, Research & Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Fridrich Strba writes:

Christoph Thiel wrote:

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* nano

Please, don't I use this one heavily as my favourite editor in text mode.

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* yum * yum-utils

These packages are also my every-day life.

Just curious: Do they have any advantage still over zypper in openSUSE 11.0? Or is it just "I have always used yum" ;) Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 10:23:24AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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* yum * yum-utils

These packages are also my every-day life.

Just curious: Do they have any advantage still over zypper in openSUSE 11.0? Or is it just "I have always used yum" ;)

Yes, for instance the ability to show the package changelog diff for pacakges to be updated, or the ability to keep kernels instead of removing them during update, or the ability to be easily built and used on older distributions. And of course the fact that it is tried and tested, and not "brand new hot in-flux stuff" like zypper, that yet has to stabilize, before I can depend on it for things like server administration. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 04:12:04 +0300, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

I think we can open feature-requests for zypper.

I requested those issues in the past via the zypp-devel mailing list.

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And of course the fact that it is tried and tested, and not "brand new hot in-flux stuff" like zypper, that yet has to stabilize, before I can depend on it for things like server administration.

Some people might dislike this wording.

I don't know what you find problematic about the wording. I am not saying anything bad about zypper. I'm just referring to some facts: yum stabilized a long time ago (I have been using it 5 years ago at least), and I am easily able to use it on SLES installations. I know that it works (and what doesn't work) from years of experience. Zypper is very much in flux, and I guess that development has not fully stabilized. I *assume* it has started to stabilize though, because it has reached a certain level of feature completeness recently (but only very recently). I am looking forward to a zypper that has the features I need, and I will carefully evaluate it and see if it is reliable. Before, I won't switch, obviously. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Bernhard Walle wrote:

* Peter Poeml [2008-08-28 15:05]:

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And of course the fact that it is tried and tested

But not with openSUSE. While I'm normally for diversity, I think one package manager is enough for the core distribution. Do other distributions ship "foreign" package managers?

Yes, Debian has both RPM and Alien. But it doesn't have to be part of distro. It can be part of "contrib". -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 03:16:20 +0200, Bernhard Walle wrote:

* Peter Poeml [2008-08-28 15:05]:

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And of course the fact that it is tried and tested

But not with openSUSE. While I'm normally for diversity, I think one

You may want to use a yum package that is known to work, not just what happens to be in Factory at a given time. YMMV with that. I can assure you it has been working very well during the last years. As I indicated, I care more about SLES, and I use my own build of yum (that I can rely on).

package manager is enough for the core distribution. Do other distributions ship "foreign" package managers?

From a build service perspective, where we offer packages for other distributions, we have a need to be compatible in a way that clients used on other distributions (like yum, smart, whatever) can be used to install and update software from the build service. Thus, I consider it an advantage if we know that it works, and this already is a reason to have yum on our distribution. You need to know that the build service uses repo-md metadata, which is the yum-style metadata which zypper happens to understand _also_. In the past, there have been discussions on and off whether to introduce features in our metadata that would make them incompatible with yum, smart and other package managers. I consider it the right thing that we could avoid that. Thus, I'm all for diversity in this regard. It is a strength of us (and of the build service in particular) that you can use it from different distributions, with various package managers, because our metadata stays on common ground. The build service actually uses createrepo, the companion tool of yum to create its metadata. I believe it is very good for us to be based on a common denominator. BTW, when looking in the download.opensuse.org logs, then yum is the second most used package manager after libzypp-based clients. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 03:41:41PM +0200, Bernhard Walle wrote:

* Peter Poeml [2008-08-28 15:34]:

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I can assure you it has been working very well during the last years. As I indicated, I care more about SLES, and I use my own build of yum (that I can rely on).

If you use your own version, why do you care about the yum in Factory at all? I don't get that point.

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You need to know that the build service uses repo-md metadata, which is the yum-style metadata which zypper happens to understand _also_. In the past, there have been discussions on and off whether to introduce features in our metadata that would make them incompatible with yum, smart and other package managers. I consider it the right thing that we could avoid that. Thus, I'm all for diversity in this regard. It is a strength of us (and of the build service in particular) that you can use it from different distributions, with various package managers, because our metadata stays on common ground.

I agree with that. If zypper needs features that are not possible with current meta data, why not talk with developers of yum about that? So that the meta format gets extended (in a backward-compatible way) without having again a SUSE-only stuff.

We already do and have done so to my knowledge. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

* Peter Poeml [2008-08-28 16:05]:

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I agree with that. If zypper needs features that are not possible with current meta data, why not talk with developers of yum about that? So that the meta format gets extended (in a backward-compatible way) without having again a SUSE-only stuff.

Yes, as Marcus says, we do that. No reason to assume that we don't.

It just sounded like you (plural) didn't. Sorry, I didn't want to criticise you. Bernhard -- Bernhard Walle, SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Architecture Development --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 03:24:10 +0200, Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:

Dňa Thursday 28 August 2008 15:05:33 Peter Poeml ste napísal:

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On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 10:23:24AM +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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...

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* yum * yum-utils

These packages are also my every-day life.

Just curious: Do they have any advantage still over zypper in openSUSE 11.0? Or is it just "I have always used yum" ;)

Yes, for instance the ability to show the package changelog diff for pacakges to be updated

, or the ability to keep kernels instead of removing them during update ^^^^^^^^^^ available in factory already ;-)

That's nice to know at least ;) Looking forward to use it on SLE11. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development

Dňa Friday 29 August 2008 09:49:05 Fridrich Strba ste napísal:

Andreas,

Andreas Jaeger wrote:

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...

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* yum * yum-utils

These packages are also my every-day life.

Just curious: Do they have any advantage still over zypper in openSUSE 11.0? Or is it just "I have always used yum" ;)

Several things: - especially with 11.0, zypper has to be restarted several times during updates because it somehow has sometimes problems to download packages claiming that the repos are outdated. With yum, normally these transaction happen without problem

yes, we have GSoC project to improve there.

- when I create a minimum systems, zypper has the tendency to pull some dependencies that are in Recomends section whereas yum does not do it, so I use yum as a tool to update the OpenOffice.org builder VM that we distribute and that is based on 11.0

use 'zypper up --no-recommends'

- yum makes one rpm transaction and when upgrading a system, I don't have to be online all the time during the upgrade, I can pull the packages and go offline.

known issue. Thanks a lot for feedback! Stano

Having said that, as I cannot commit to maintaining them, just pleading my cause.

Cheers

Fridrich

P.S.: It is OTOH true that zypper is really fast in dependency resolution and I love it and use too on my normal systems. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

* Alexey Eremenko [2008-08-28 15:26]:

I think we can start reviewing... James ?

I don't think that packages that have been in (open)SUSE for a long time actually need review ... Bernhard -- Bernhard Walle, SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Architecture Development --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Bernhard Walle writes:

* Alexey Eremenko [2008-08-28 15:26]:

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I think we can start reviewing... James ?

I don't think that packages that have been in (open)SUSE for a long time actually need review ...

I would suggest to give them a review and double check it, there might be changes have happened over time that the maintainer does not now - on the other hand, I suggest to be a bit less strict ("in dubio pro re" - meaning if in doubt put it in), Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Le jeudi 28 août 2008, à 14:33 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

Alexey Eremenko schrieb:

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* offlineimap * python-setuptools * repoview

Yes, putting those in contrib would be good idea. This is where they really should belong.

I disagree. The above packages should be kept in openSUSE IMHO. As Christoph and Greg already noticed offlineimap and python-setuptools will still be maintained at Novell.

How is the fact that Novell employees will maintain the packages relevant to where they should live (main repository or contrib repository, in this case)? Honest question -- I'm an offlineimap user, so I certainly want it to be well-maintained. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 28 août 2008, à 15:16 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

Vincent Untz schrieb:

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Le jeudi 28 août 2008, à 14:33 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

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Alexey Eremenko schrieb:

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* offlineimap * python-setuptools * repoview Yes, putting those in contrib would be good idea. This is where they really should belong. I disagree. The above packages should be kept in openSUSE IMHO. As Christoph and Greg already noticed offlineimap and python-setuptools will still be maintained at Novell.

How is the fact that Novell employees will maintain the packages relevant to where they should live (main repository or contrib repository, in this case)?

It's not. But I consider it "basic" functionality of a Linux distribution. The "kept in openSUSE" is the point which means "kept in the core set" and that implies "maintained at Novell". Can you follow? ;-)

I'm trying to follow ;-) I honestly don't know about python-setuptools and repoview. So let's just talk about offlineimap: is it really basic functionality for you? It's certainly not for me. I expect 95% of our users to not even care about it (but it's truly awesome, I agree).

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Honest question -- I'm an offlineimap user, so I certainly want it to be well-maintained.

Yes, but that's completely irrelevant for where it's being hosted. I know a set of packages which are not well-maintained although they are maintained by Novell and not the community.

Heh. Fair enough :-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 03:39:45PM +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le jeudi 28 août 2008, à 15:16 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

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Vincent Untz schrieb:

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Le jeudi 28 août 2008, à 14:33 +0200, Wolfgang Rosenauer a écrit :

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Alexey Eremenko schrieb:

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* offlineimap * python-setuptools * repoview Yes, putting those in contrib would be good idea. This is where they really should belong. I disagree. The above packages should be kept in openSUSE IMHO. As Christoph and Greg already noticed offlineimap and python-setuptools will still be maintained at Novell.

How is the fact that Novell employees will maintain the packages relevant to where they should live (main repository or contrib repository, in this case)?

It's not. But I consider it "basic" functionality of a Linux distribution. The "kept in openSUSE" is the point which means "kept in the core set" and that implies "maintained at Novell". Can you follow? ;-)

I'm trying to follow ;-) I honestly don't know about python-setuptools and repoview. So let's just talk about offlineimap: is it really basic functionality for you? It's certainly not for me. I expect 95% of our users to not even care about it (but it's truly awesome, I agree).

It is "basic functionality" for me, as it is the primary way I get my email to my local machine so that I can do my job, my Novell job :) Why are we arguing about this kind of trivia... greg k-h --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Bernhard Walle wrote:

* Christoph Thiel [2008-08-27 15:06]:

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* repoview

Isn't that used in the build service itself?

I think it's Red Hat's package for yum. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Bernhard Walle schrieb:

* Christoph Thiel [2008-08-27 15:06]:

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* repoview

Isn't that used in the build service itself?

It is. At least it looks exactly like it is ;-) Therefore my previous mail about it. Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 03:00:27PM +0200, Sonja Krause-Harder wrote:

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 07:39:24PM -0400, Christoph Thiel wrote:

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* python-setuptools (Novell-only)

I use it, I'll take it.

Thanks! Best, Christoph -- Christoph Thiel, Tech. Project Management, Research & Development SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 28 August 2008 20:39:24 Christoph Thiel wrote:

The following packages are still on sale. I have grouped them in blocks, ...

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* repoview * python-kid

I definitely need python-kid, so I can take both of these. -- James Oakley jfunk@funktronics.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 29 August 2008 13:17:36 Christoph Thiel wrote:

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...

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* repoview * python-kid

I definitely need python-kid, so I can take both of these.

Alright, drop request filed. Please pull the packages from home:cthiel1.

Done. -- James Oakley jfunk@funktronics.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

On 2008-09-16 13:07:13 +0200, Christoph Thiel wrote:

On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 03:06:19PM -0400, Christoph Thiel wrote:

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* smart * yum * yum-metadata-parser * yum-utils

Since noone took those packages, I have now filled a drop request on them. Having said that, I would still like to push them to Contrib or offer them trough a different build service project.

BTW, smart is already being maintained by Pascal and myself at http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/smart/

If you are interested in taking over yum in Contrib or another build service project, please speak up and I'll get the latests package sources in your hands!

you can not drop smart as long other packages are depending on it. afaik kiwi still defaults to smart as package manager for image creation. so long ... darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org