[opensuse-packaging] SUSE insanities

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Krzysztof Kotlenga

5 Feb 2008 5 Feb '08

20:03

Hi, First: package groups. That list: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups It's incomplete, nobody respects it. Stupid groups: Productivity/Networking/Napster - but there is no common group for P2P applications Productivity/Networking/AOLInstantMessenger - but there is no common group for IM applications! Pidgin is in "Productivity/Networking/Instant Messenger", gajim in "Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging" etc. Categorization funnies: gstreamer010-plugins-base in System/GUI/GNOME (same for other gstreamer packages). I'd never thought. Second: lists of authors in package descriptions. That what AUTHORS files are for! God damn it! I bet that most of it are incomplete, because it's a waste of time to update them in specs. I run rpm -qi and... whoa!, must rerun with some pager to see a real description. Again, piding.spec is a good example. OK, enough for today. With love, yours truly, openSUSE user. -- Krzysztof Kotlenga --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

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Juergen Weigert

5 Feb 5 Feb

20:56

On Feb 05, 08 21:03:43 +0100, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote: [first: group namespace inconsitencies] No idea, I never looked at RPM groups.

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Second: lists of authors in package descriptions. That what AUTHORS files are for!

Yes. You are free to also have an AUTHORS file. OpenSUSE packages make the list of authors also available through the RPM header. Unfortunatly the RPM gods have no forseen a header for authors. Having authors as part of the description is nothing more than a workaround.

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God damn it! A votre sante.

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I bet that most of it are incomplete, because it's a waste of time to update them in specs.

Depends on point of view. Having to update *only* the specfile may be regarded as a pro, not as a con.

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I run rpm -qi and... whoa!, must rerun with some pager to see a real description. Again, piding.spec is a good example.

pidgin is second place (62 entries), only beaten by xterm (108 entries). cheers, Jw. -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de wide open suse_/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 (tm)__/ (____/ /\ (/) | __________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) "Novell is committed to creating a work environment that embraces clarity." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

22:11

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Juergen Weigert wrote:-

...

On Feb 05, 08 21:03:43 +0100, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote: [first: group namespace inconsitencies] No idea, I never looked at RPM groups.

Full list is available here: URL:http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups and, if there are some changes to be made to the packages groups, I have a few (small) changes I would like to make: Create the group Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging Move Productivity/Networking/AOLInstantMessager to Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging/AOLInstantMessager Move Productivity/Networking/ICQ to Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging/ICQ Create the group Productivity/Networking/P2P Move Productivity/Networking/Napster to Productivity/Networking/P2P/Napster Create Productivity/Networking/P2P/Bittorrent Create the group Productivity/Text/Editors Move Productivity/Editors/Emacs to Productivity/Text/Editors/Emacs Move Productivity/Editors/Other to Productivity/Text/Editors/Other Move Productivity/Editors/Vi to Productivity/Text/Editors/Vi Possibly create the group Development/Languages/Ruby to go along with the other languages provided by openSUSE. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1 SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.11 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Krzysztof Kotlenga

6 Feb 6 Feb

22:16

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

David Bolt wrote:

...

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Juergen Weigert wrote:-

...
On Feb 05, 08 21:03:43 +0100, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote: [first: group namespace inconsitencies] No idea, I never looked at RPM groups.

Full list is available here:

URL:http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups

and, if there are some changes to be made to the packages groups, I have a few (small) changes I would like to make:

[cut]

Great suggestions. SUSE team, anyone on that? -- Krzysztof Kotlenga xmpp:pocketer@jabber.gda.pl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Dirk Mueller

7 Feb 7 Feb

10:08

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

On Wednesday 06 February 2008, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote:

...

...
and, if there are some changes to be made to the packages groups, I have a few (small) changes I would like to make: Great suggestions. SUSE team, anyone on that?

I guess no feedback means that you should file a bugreport :) -- RPMLINT information under http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging/RpmLint --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Behlert

8 Feb 8 Feb

01:07

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

Hi, On Feb 06, 08 23:16:42 +0100, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote:

...

David Bolt wrote:

...
On Tue, 5 Feb 2008, Juergen Weigert wrote:-

...
On Feb 05, 08 21:03:43 +0100, Krzysztof Kotlenga wrote: [first: group namespace inconsitencies] No idea, I never looked at RPM groups.

Full list is available here:

URL:http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups

and, if there are some changes to be made to the packages groups, I have a few (small) changes I would like to make:

[cut]

Great suggestions. SUSE team, anyone on that?

Yes, this looks like something that should be looked at. I have put it on my 'look-at-this-once-you-have-a-free-slot'-list. (No, this is not a dead list, nor a joke.) I know that there are several packages that are in the wrong category, sigh. Are there more suggestions what groups could be changed/adapted? Stefan -- Stefan Behlert, SUSE LINUX - a Novell business, SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Nuernberg; GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Lars Vogdt

10:39

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

On Freitag, 8. Februar 2008 02:07:59 Stefan Behlert wrote:

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http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups>

I over-worked the groups a bit and adapted the list to the current one in our internal PDB. Hopefully I didn't forget any group as I've done this manually. New/Changed: 1) New Group Amusements/Teaching inlcuding: Amusements/Teaching/Language Amusements/Teaching/Mathematics Amusements/Teaching/Other 2) New Group Hardware/Camera 3) Deleted Group Hardware/PDA 4) New Group Hardware/Wifi 5) New Group Metapackages 6) New Group Procuctivity/Networking/File-Sharing 7) New Group Productivity/Networking/Instant Messenger 8) New Group Productivity/Office/Management 9) New Group Productivity/Office/Word Processor 10) New Group System/GUI/XFCE 11) New Group System/Localization Still the question: Are there more suggestions what groups could be changed/adapted? Kind regards, Lars -- Lars Vogdt Autobuild Team SUSE Linux Products GmbH GF: Markus Rex Nuernberg, Germany HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Krzysztof Kotlenga

13:10

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

Lars Vogdt wrote:

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Procuctivity/Networking/File-Sharing

Why '-' and not just "File Sharing"?

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Productivity/Networking/Instant Messenger Productivity/Office/Word Processor

Why single forms when we already have "Utilities", not "Utility", "Clients", not "Client", "Spreadsheets", not "Spreadsheet" etc? What do you think? -- Krzysztof Kotlenga xmpp:pocketer@jabber.gda.pl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Christian Morales Vega

13:48

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

2008/2/8, Lars Vogdt :

...

On Freitag, 8. Februar 2008 02:07:59 Stefan Behlert wrote:

...
http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups>

I over-worked the groups a bit and adapted the list to the current one in our internal PDB. Hopefully I didn't forget any group as I've done this manually.

New/Changed:

1) New Group Amusements/Teaching inlcuding:

Amusements/Teaching/Language Amusements/Teaching/Mathematics Amusements/Teaching/Other

2) New Group Hardware/Camera

3) Deleted Group Hardware/PDA

4) New Group Hardware/Wifi

5) New Group Metapackages

6) New Group Procuctivity/Networking/File-Sharing

7) New Group Productivity/Networking/Instant Messenger

8) New Group Productivity/Office/Management

9) New Group Productivity/Office/Word Processor

10) New Group System/GUI/XFCE

11) New Group System/Localization

Still the question: Are there more suggestions what groups could be changed/adapted?

I don't know the specifics of any of them, so perhaps I'm saying something just stupid. But shouldn't RPM Groups be just the same (or something really similar) that the categories from the menu-spec specification ( http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu )? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Michal Marek

13:57

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups

Christian Morales Vega wrote:

...

I don't know the specifics of any of them, so perhaps I'm saying something just stupid. But shouldn't RPM Groups be just the same (or something really similar) that the categories from the menu-spec specification ( http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu )?

Only a subset of packages match a menu entry. There's probably no place in menus for libraries, non-interactive command line tools etc. But the idea of syncing desktop categories and packages is interesting. Think of Start > +--Games > +--Action > +--Arcade > +--Frozen Bubble +--Pingus ... +--Install additional software from this category ... :-) Michal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Martin Vidner

14:37

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups

On Fri, Feb 08, 2008 at 02:57:33PM +0100, Michal Marek wrote:

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Christian Morales Vega wrote:

...
I don't know the specifics of any of them, so perhaps I'm saying something just stupid. But shouldn't RPM Groups be just the same (or something really similar) that the categories from the menu-spec specification ( http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu )?

Only a subset of packages match a menu entry. There's probably no place in menus for libraries, non-interactive command line tools etc.

But the idea of syncing desktop categories and packages is interesting. Think of

Start > +--Games > +--Action > +--Arcade > +--Frozen Bubble +--Pingus ... +--Install additional software from this category ...

I was thinking that the concept of hierarchic groups was too strict and that we would be better off with a tag cloud, but the menu connection gives it some validity back. -- Martin Vidner, YaST developer http://en.opensuse.org/User:Mvidner Kuracke oddeleni v restauraci je jako fekalni oddeleni v bazenu --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Krzysztof Kotlenga

16:47

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups

Martin Vidner wrote:

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I was thinking that the concept of hierarchic groups was too strict and that we would be better off with a tag cloud, but the menu connection gives it some validity back.

RPM doesn't have tags, but the Build Service has them... basically. For now, current RPM groups are fine (after changes introduced in this thread). As always, further improvements can be done in the future :) BTW, May I note how Debian is great in this area? http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/ and http://packages.debian.org/ -- Krzysztof Kotlenga xmpp:pocketer@jabber.gda.pl --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

9 Feb 9 Feb

00:32

New subject: [opensuse-packaging] RPM groups (was: SUSE insanities)

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Lars Vogdt wrote:-

...

On Freitag, 8. Februar 2008 02:07:59 Stefan Behlert wrote:

...
http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups>

I over-worked the groups a bit and adapted the list to the current one in our internal PDB. Hopefully I didn't forget any group as I've done this manually.

You missed the Productivity/Text/Editors group :-)

...

New/Changed:

1) New Group Amusements/Teaching inlcuding:

Amusements/Teaching/Language Amusements/Teaching/Mathematics Amusements/Teaching/Other

Any reason for not creating a top-level group Education and adding them under that? E.g. Education/Languages Education/Mathematics Education/Others Education/Sciences This would be nice, especially if the number of educational packages is increased. The only possible problem I can see would be where a packager as to decide whether a package should go under Education/Sciences or one of the Productivity/Scientific groups.

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6) New Group Procuctivity/Networking/File-Sharing

As mentioned by Krzysztof, I'd probably go for File Sharing as it's consistent with the other groups that contain more than a single word, like Productivity/Multimedia/Sound/Editors and Convertors.

...

Still the question: Are there more suggestions what groups could be changed/adapted?

With the exception of those above, I can't think of any others at the moment. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1 SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.11 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Lars Vogdt

8 Feb 8 Feb

10:50

On Dienstag, 5. Februar 2008 23:11:55 David Bolt wrote:

...

Full list is available here:

URL:http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/RPM_Groups

and, if there are some changes to be made to the packages groups, I have a few (small) changes I would like to make:

Create the group Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging

=> Productivity/Networking/Instant Messenger

...

Move Productivity/Networking/AOLInstantMessager to Productivity/Networking/InstantMessaging/AOLInstantMessager

=> This Group is hopefully obsolete some time ;-)

...

Create the group Productivity/Networking/P2P

Move Productivity/Networking/Napster to Productivity/Networking/P2P/Napster

Create Productivity/Networking/P2P/Bittorrent

=> summarized to Procuctivity/Networking/File-Sharing

...

Create the group Productivity/Text/Editors

Move Productivity/Editors/Emacs to Productivity/Text/Editors/Emacs

Move Productivity/Editors/Other to Productivity/Text/Editors/Other

Move Productivity/Editors/Vi to Productivity/Text/Editors/Vi

Everyone ok with this?

...

Possibly create the group Development/Languages/Ruby to go along with the other languages provided by openSUSE.

=> Development/Languages/Ruby Lars --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Behlert

20:57

On Feb 08, 08 11:50:21 +0100, Lars Vogdt wrote:

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On Dienstag, 5. Februar 2008 23:11:55 David Bolt wrote: [...]

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Create the group Productivity/Text/Editors

Move Productivity/Editors/Emacs to Productivity/Text/Editors/Emacs Move Productivity/Editors/Other to Productivity/Text/Editors/Other Move Productivity/Editors/Vi to Productivity/Text/Editors/Vi

Everyone ok with this?

Well, I am a little bit hesitant here. While I think haveing a certain number of groups is good I think that too much details is bad. For the sake of simplicity I would aggregate those three into one group. ciao, Stefan -- Stefan Behlert, SUSE LINUX - a Novell business, SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Nuernberg; GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

David Bolt

9 Feb 9 Feb

00:11

On Fri, 8 Feb 2008, Stefan Behlert wrote:-

...

On Feb 08, 08 11:50:21 +0100, Lars Vogdt wrote:

...
On Dienstag, 5. Februar 2008 23:11:55 David Bolt wrote: [...]

...
Create the group Productivity/Text/Editors

Move Productivity/Editors/Emacs to Productivity/Text/Editors/Emacs Move Productivity/Editors/Other to Productivity/Text/Editors/Other Move Productivity/Editors/Vi to Productivity/Text/Editors/Vi

Everyone ok with this?

Well, I am a little bit hesitant here. While I think haveing a certain number of groups is good I think that too much details is bad. For the sake of simplicity I would aggregate those three into one group.

My suggestion was purely based on bringing the Editors/* groups under Text/Editors/, which is where I'd logically expect them to be. I certainly won't mind having the contents Emacs, Vi and Other groups combined under Editors. Regards, David Bolt -- Team Acorn: http://www.distributed.net/ OGR-P2 @ ~100Mnodes RC5-72 @ ~15Mkeys SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit | openSUSE 10.3 32bit | openSUSE 11.0a1 SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit | openSUSE 10.3 64bit RISC OS 3.6 | TOS 4.02 | openSUSE 10.3 PPC | RISC OS 3.11 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

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participants (9)

Christian Morales Vega
David Bolt
Dirk Mueller
Juergen Weigert
Krzysztof Kotlenga
Lars Vogdt
Martin Vidner
Michal Marek
Stefan Behlert