[opensuse-packaging] Menu handling
Hi, Many years ago, SuSE used selfmade menu. Now, according to freedesktop.org's specs and implementations in software there's no need. Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated. By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu. You may ask "what's that mess?". The mess is: * more categories than entries in those categories * entries duplication * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups client/whatever, same applies for Miro) * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual "Applications" menu and/or application browser openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably with --vendor and --delete original as schema). Screenshots from GNOME: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mtf3lw I'll probably have to find better host for these screenshots. Tell me, when this doesn't work. -- Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek http://liviopl.jogger.pl/
Am Montag, 21. April 2008 schrieb Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek:
openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably with --vendor and --delete original as schema).
Sorry, but what are you talking about explicitly? We of course use the desktop files provided by the applications. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote:
Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated.
By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu.
You may ask "what's that mess?".
The mess is: * more categories than entries in those categories * entries duplication * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups client/whatever, same applies for Miro) * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual "Applications" menu and/or application browser
Upstream desktop files should be used already if appropriate. If you see bugs you should report them since what you are saying is no general issue.
Screenshots from GNOME: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mtf3lw I'll probably have to find better host for these screenshots. Tell me, when this doesn't work.
Didn't work for me. Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: | Many years ago, SuSE used selfmade menu. Now, according to | freedesktop.org's specs and implementations in software there's no need. | | Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated. Not from my experience. They're almost always having Fedora categories (Applications/*), which are quite simplistic and do not comply with the SUSE Package Conventions. | By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's | menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu. [...] | * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups | client/whatever, same applies for Miro) Cool. What "RSS aggregator" do you mean ? http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu#9.4._Category_L... | * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual | "Applications" menu and/or application browser | | openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said | before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably | with --vendor and --delete original as schema). Again, from my experience they almost never provide .desktop files that match openSUSE's tree of categories. Thinking of it, make that "almost never" a "never" cheers - -- ~ -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ ~ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> ~ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIDllDr3NMWliFcXcRAhGvAJ441DN4TeyBVx5CrHirCsACdabH/wCfYUo6 vC347r8ZdoyxauTp11Ccr7o= =HQ8r -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Le mardi 22 avril 2008, à 23:31 +0200, Pascal Bleser a écrit :
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Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek wrote: | Many years ago, SuSE used selfmade menu. Now, according to | freedesktop.org's specs and implementations in software there's no need. | | Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated.
Not from my experience. They're almost always having Fedora categories (Applications/*), which are quite simplistic and do not comply with the SUSE Package Conventions.
| By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's | menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu. [...]
| * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups | client/whatever, same applies for Miro)
Cool. What "RSS aggregator" do you mean ? http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu#9.4._Category_L...
This list contains invalid categories -- ie categories that are not defined in http://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html#catego... and that are not prefixed by X-. Didn't have time to fix this, but it's on my todo list :-)
| * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual | "Applications" menu and/or application browser | | openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said | before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably | with --vendor and --delete original as schema).
Again, from my experience they almost never provide .desktop files that match openSUSE's tree of categories. Thinking of it, make that "almost never" a "never"
Wouldn't it make sense to fix upstream desktop files to have the right categories? It would mean much less work. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Vincent Untz wrote: | Le mardi 22 avril 2008, à 23:31 +0200, Pascal Bleser a écrit : [...] |> Again, from my experience they almost never provide .desktop files that |> match openSUSE's tree of categories. |> Thinking of it, make that "almost never" a "never" | | Wouldn't it make sense to fix upstream desktop files to have the right | categories? It would mean much less work. No, they're not compatible. SUSE chose to have more fine-grained and meaningful categories than what Fedora (and upstream, almost always) is using. If we want to use upstream (== Fedora) menu categories, then we have to completely dump what we're using now and adopt theirs instead. This would be a major usability change. No way :) cheers - -- ~ -o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/ ~ /\\ <pascal.bleser@skynet.be> <guru@unixtech.be> ~ _\_v The more things change, the more they stay insane. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIEYBmr3NMWliFcXcRAmd+AKCA7tHsdreJP0MEqy05Lsc5eL0ePwCeLF+T XZNk35oukDlU8z9qbdp2xzc= =1Ver -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Le vendredi 25 avril 2008, à 08:55 +0200, Pascal Bleser a écrit :
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Vincent Untz wrote: | Le mardi 22 avril 2008, à 23:31 +0200, Pascal Bleser a écrit : [...] |> Again, from my experience they almost never provide .desktop files that |> match openSUSE's tree of categories. |> Thinking of it, make that "almost never" a "never" | | Wouldn't it make sense to fix upstream desktop files to have the right | categories? It would mean much less work.
No, they're not compatible. SUSE chose to have more fine-grained and meaningful categories than what Fedora (and upstream, almost always) is using.
If we want to use upstream (== Fedora) menu categories, then we have to completely dump what we're using now and adopt theirs instead.
(not quite sure why you're mixing Fedora and upstream here?) What from [1] is missing in [2]? (I can see a few categories, to be honest, but nothing major) [1] http://en.opensuse.org/SUSE_Package_Conventions/Desktop_Menu#9.4._Category_L... [2] http://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html#catego... Note that: + it's possible to change the fdo specs to add new categories + if some categories are missing, then openSUSE does not respect the fd.o specs since those missing categories should be prefixed by X-. Maybe I'm being strong-headed, but I don't see the point of the current way if we don't try to push things upstream. It just harms us in the long term (since it's a kind of fork that we have to maintain). Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
Le lundi 21 avril 2008, à 21:37 +0200, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek a écrit :
Hi,
Many years ago, SuSE used selfmade menu. Now, according to freedesktop.org's specs and implementations in software there's no need.
Upstream provides .desktop files, mostly well translated.
By creating .desktop files, you're reinventing the wheel, making SUSE's menu entries inconsistent with other distros, and messing in menu.
You may ask "what's that mess?".
The mess is: * more categories than entries in those categories * entries duplication * wrong categories set (Liferea is RSS aggregator, not newsgroups client/whatever, same applies for Miro) * configuration apps not in GNOME's control center but in usual "Applications" menu and/or application browser
openSUSE should stop that. Apps already provide .desktop files, as said before. desktop-file-install should be used to install them (probably with --vendor and --delete original as schema).
Screenshots from GNOME: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mtf3lw I'll probably have to find better host for these screenshots. Tell me, when this doesn't work.
That's most probably because of the menu files that are used. We have applications.menu, applications.menu.kde and applications.menu.gnome -- I'm not sure all GNOME applications use applications.menu.gnome (and looking at this file, it seems outdated). So we can fix it in the packaging of gnome-menus, I believe. Btw, does anyone know why we have applications.menu.kde instead of kde-applications.menu? This is what the fd.o specs recommends (search for XDG_MENU_PREFIX in http://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org
participants (5)
-
Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek -
Pascal Bleser -
Stephan Kulow -
Vincent Untz -
Wolfgang Rosenauer