Hi, Am 19.01.2012 11:50, schrieb Andreas Jaeger:

I just filed feature #313152 - to have a smaller base system which is beneficial for appliances.

Looking at a basic installation (default text server install), I noticed that we have in /usr/share/doc/packages besides the license (which we need to keep) also other files.

An example is glib2, it installs to /usr/share/doc/packages/libglib-2_0-0:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1344 Aug 16 02:51 AUTHORS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1895792 Oct 14 15:51 ChangeLog -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 25292 Aug 16 02:51 COPYING -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 197710 Oct 14 15:30 NEWS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9906 Oct 14 15:51 README

I suggest to move everything to the devel package (or a doc package if it exists).

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of our users does not need any of these. Those developers that need it, will get it from the devel/doc packages.

What do you think? Any other ideas on getting a smaller base system?

Note: I don't want to make this a hard rule, more a recommendation.

About your proposal I'd think it makes sense to address packages which have a reasonable amount of docs in size. Means: make sure the maintainer knows there is a lot of docs and let him decide what to do about it. In general I basically agree with Vincent and Sascha that it makes sense to keep files which might be of interest for users (not developers). NEWS, AUTHORS and depending on the package README (if it doesn't contain what would be in INSTALL). So I personally think this needs to be addressed on a case by case base. What would be nice is a list of "offenders" sorted by some priority set by size and likeliness to be used on an appliance just to make sure to get the important ones fixed first. But another thing I was thinking about years ago (I guess I even filed it in bugzilla before I left SUSE but not sure right now): RPM knows --excludedocs. Was that considered to be added as an option to zypp. This sounds like a valid usecase for appliances if someone wants a system as small as possible but accept to lose man pages as well. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 11:50, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

I just filed feature #313152 - to have a smaller base system which is beneficial for appliances. <snip> I suggest to move everything to the devel package (or a doc package if it exists).

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

+1 for compression if not move to *-devel, gzip + less is needed for base-system. Suggestion: compress above 4k file-size at least. All LICENCE could be compressed with no loss regarding legal. - Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

I just filed feature #313152 - to have a smaller base system which is beneficial for appliances.

Looking at a basic installation (default text server install), I noticed that we have in /usr/share/doc/packages besides the license (which we need to keep) also other files.

An example is glib2, it installs to /usr/share/doc/packages/libglib-2_0-0:

-rw-r--r--   1 root root    1344 Aug 16 02:51 AUTHORS -rw-r--r--   1 root root 1895792 Oct 14 15:51 ChangeLog -rw-r--r--   1 root root   25292 Aug 16 02:51 COPYING -rw-r--r--   1 root root  197710 Oct 14 15:30 NEWS -rw-r--r--   1 root root    9906 Oct 14 15:51 README

I suggest to move everything to the devel package (or a doc package if it exists).

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of our users does not need any of these. Those developers that need it, will get it from the devel/doc packages.

What do you think? Any other ideas on getting a smaller base system?

Note: I don't want to make this a hard rule, more a recommendation.

Andreas

What about increasing the badness of the "package-with-huge-docs" rpmlint warning in order to make the build fail if this isn't done. It can be overridden with an rpmlintrc file if absolutely necessary. It might be worth doing the same with "devel-file-in-non-devel-package", since headers can also eat a fair amount of space. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

I just filed feature #313152 - to have a smaller base system which is beneficial for appliances.

Looking at a basic installation (default text server install), I noticed that we have in /usr/share/doc/packages besides the license (which we need to keep) also other files.

An example is glib2, it installs to /usr/share/doc/packages/libglib-2_0-0:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1344 Aug 16 02:51 AUTHORS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1895792 Oct 14 15:51 ChangeLog -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 25292 Aug 16 02:51 COPYING -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 197710 Oct 14 15:30 NEWS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9906 Oct 14 15:51 README

I suggest to move everything to the devel package (or a doc package if it exists).

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of our users does not need any of these. Those developers that need it, will get it from the devel/doc packages.

What do you think? Any other ideas on getting a smaller base system?

Don't install anything besides COPYING in a non-doc package. Richard. -- Richard Guenther SUSE / SUSE Labs SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nuernberg - AG Nuernberg - HRB 16746 GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer

On Thursday 19 January 2012, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of our users does not need any of these. Those developers that need it, will get it from the devel/doc packages.

But on a usual system it's not even worth to safe a few _MEGA_bytes. Should we also drop support for rpm -q --changelog ... to safe ~1M on joe public's system with 1T HD?

What do you think? Any other ideas on getting a smaller base system?

Isn't rpm --excludepath doing the right thing optionally to be used to get a small base systems?

Note: I don't want to make this a hard rule, more a recommendation.

I don't think these standard files above are the worst space consumers in /usr/share/doc/packages. I guess you could safe more space by cleaning up some of the big boys manually first. For example here is a lot trash to drop /usr/share/doc/packages/zsh/ cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org

I just filed feature #313152 - to have a smaller base system which is beneficial for appliances.

Looking at a basic installation (default text server install), I noticed that we have in /usr/share/doc/packages besides the license (which we need to keep) also other files.

An example is glib2, it installs to /usr/share/doc/packages/libglib-2_0-0:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1344 Aug 16 02:51 AUTHORS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1895792 Oct 14 15:51 ChangeLog -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 25292 Aug 16 02:51 COPYING -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 197710 Oct 14 15:30 NEWS -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 9906 Oct 14 15:51 README

I suggest to move everything to the devel package (or a doc package if it exists).

On IRC, Vincent and Sascha suggested to keep README, NEWS (and maybe AUTHORS) in the base package and move only ChangeLog to the devel package. Another idea was to compress these files.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of our users does not need any of these. Those developers that need it, will get it from the devel/doc packages.

What do you think? Any other ideas on getting a smaller base system?

Note: I don't want to make this a hard rule, more a recommendation.

Andreas A fine rule of thumb but not a good idea for an automatism. I don't want to split like 100 library rpms into library.rpm and

Am 19.01.2012 11:50, schrieb Andreas Jaeger: library-devel.rpm just because there is some text which arguably goes to /usr/share/doc. It would tempt packagers to simply hide docs somewhere near the test cases to safe the pain. -- Ralf Lang Linux Consultant / Developer Tel.: +49-170-6381563 Mail: lang@b1-systems.de B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg / http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner / Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org