== Proposal == Just change the main protected pages in the wiki to GNU/Linux to show openSUSE's official support to Free Sotware Movement. The usage in rest of the pages will be based on personal choice. Looking for reply from Zonker and Brien on this issue.
--- ADM
I have tried very hard to stay out of this.
openSUSE is a registered trademark. Ask Novel what they want to call it.
There is GNU software in Solaris; it is not GNU/Solaris. There is Gnu software in AIX; it is not GNU/AIX. I am a purist. The kernel is the OS and everything else runs on the kernel. It is Linux. In our case it is openSUSE/Linux, NOT openSUSE/GNU/Linux. I am an openSUSE ambassador, not a GNU/Linux ambassador. That is a different mailing list.
I have been on this mailing list for less than a week and 90% of the bandwidthe is consumed by this thread. Let it go. Go preach to a different choir, I know my relegion. Stop trying to convert me. If I wanted to prosteletize for Richard Stallman I woul be on a GNU mailling list.
My two cents! K. R. Gallagher Mailto: krgallagher@yahoo.com http://www.krgallagher.com
I have tried very hard to stay out of this.
openSUSE is a registered trademark. Ask Novel what they want to call it.
That's why I asked Zonker and Brien to reply
There is GNU software in Solaris; it is not GNU/Solaris. There is Gnu software in AIX; it is not GNU/AIX.
Because solaris and AIX started their development independently and they have their own system. But Linux was not an independent system itself. It was just a kernel released on some mailing list by a hobbyist named Linus Torvalds [1]. The available free system (There were no other free system available at that time) which was used by other hobbyists was GNU. GNU started it all - The Free OS, Free software, Free toolkit - everything. They started a project on kernel too (HURD). But Linux was readily available and people along with FSF decided to work on that. So you see there is no reason for calling AIX, GNU/AIX but when you talk about Linux based OS like openSUSE, it is not complete without GNU.
I am a purist. The kernel is the OS and everything else runs on the kernel. It is Linux. In our case it is openSUSE/Linux, NOT openSUSE/GNU/Linux. I am an openSUSE ambassador, not a GNU/Linux ambassador. That is a different mailing list.
As you are purist, after understanding the lines I wrote above, you should follow the proper way to refer to the system. Kernel is important but an OS is not complete without any shell or application. Linux is the kernel, the rest of it is highly dependent on GNU software. Hence I call it GNU/Linux (I am not asking to call it only GNU, I know how important Linux is).
And as an openSUSE ambassador you must know your beloved OS properly. And I am on a proper mailing list because I love openSUSE too, but I am not properly aligned with the view that it is only "linux" as you call it.
I have been on this mailing list for less than a week and 90% of the bandwidthe is consumed by this thread. Let it go. Go preach to a different choir, I know my relegion. Stop trying to convert me. If I wanted to prosteletize for Richard Stallman I woul be on a GNU mailling list.
Computer and software are not religions. These are just tools. But tools with great power. Tomorrow the whole world is going to be controlled by these tools. If we do not take caution and depend on non-free software heavily, then at that time perhaps for even drinking water you might need a license from the company who manufactured the computer that controls your city water suply system. Hence spreading the word of freedom in technology is necessary. It is not about following some other person, it is about understanding the danger of non-free technology and protesting against it both technically an sociologically.
Calling the system GNU/Linux is just a way to make people aware of GNU. Unfortunately Linux related websites do not talk about such dangers and emphasizes only on technicality. Making people aware about GNU will guide them to GNU related websites which talk about technical freedom. In this way just using the term GNU/Linux you can help the greater sociological cause outside the world of computer tools.
-- ADM
[1] https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rhasan/linux/#New%20Baby%20in%20the%20Horizon
On Wednesday 01 July 2009 06:39:48 Abhradip mukherjee wrote:
I have tried very hard to stay out of this.
openSUSE is a registered trademark. Ask Novel what they want to call it.
That's why I asked Zonker and Brien to reply
There is GNU software in Solaris; it is not GNU/Solaris. There is Gnu software in AIX; it is not GNU/AIX.
Because solaris and AIX started their development independently and they have their own system. But Linux was not an independent system itself. It was just a kernel released on some mailing list by a hobbyist named Linus Torvalds [1]. The available free system (There were no other free system available at that time) which was used by other hobbyists was GNU. GNU started it all - The Free OS, Free software, Free toolkit - everything. They started a project on kernel too (HURD). But Linux was readily available and people along with FSF decided to work on that. So you see there is no reason for calling AIX, GNU/AIX but when you talk about Linux based OS like openSUSE, it is not complete without GNU.
I am a purist. The kernel is the OS and everything else runs on the kernel. It is Linux. In our case it is openSUSE/Linux, NOT openSUSE/GNU/Linux. I am an openSUSE ambassador, not a GNU/Linux ambassador. That is a different mailing list.
As you are purist, after understanding the lines I wrote above, you should follow the proper way to refer to the system. Kernel is important but an OS is not complete without any shell or application. Linux is the kernel, the rest of it is highly dependent on GNU software. Hence I call it GNU/Linux (I am not asking to call it only GNU, I know how important Linux is).
And as an openSUSE ambassador you must know your beloved OS properly. And I am on a proper mailing list because I love openSUSE too, but I am not properly aligned with the view that it is only "linux" as you call it.
I have been on this mailing list for less than a week and 90% of the bandwidthe is consumed by this thread. Let it go. Go preach to a different choir, I know my relegion. Stop trying to convert me. If I wanted to prosteletize for Richard Stallman I woul be on a GNU mailling list.
Computer and software are not religions. These are just tools. But tools with great power. Tomorrow the whole world is going to be controlled by these tools. If we do not take caution and depend on non-free software heavily, then at that time perhaps for even drinking water you might need a license from the company who manufactured the computer that controls your city water suply system. Hence spreading the word of freedom in technology is necessary. It is not about following some other person, it is about understanding the danger of non-free technology and protesting against it both technically an sociologically.
Calling the system GNU/Linux is just a way to make people aware of GNU. Unfortunately Linux related websites do not talk about such dangers and emphasizes only on technicality. Making people aware about GNU will guide them to GNU related websites which talk about technical freedom. In this way just using the term GNU/Linux you can help the greater sociological cause outside the world of computer tools.
-- ADM
[1] https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/rhasan/linux/#New%20Baby%20in%20the%20Horizon
I'm getting tired of this. It sounds to me like a holy war. I don't care if it is called GNU/Linux or Linux as long as it is free as in freedom. So people please stop fighting for it like some religious maniacs...
2009/7/1 Piotrek Juźwiak piotrek.juzwiak@googlemail.com:
I'm getting tired of this. It sounds to me like a holy war. I don't care if it is called GNU/Linux or Linux as long as it is free as in freedom. So people please stop fighting for it like some religious maniacs...
And this is why I haven't responded. As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is closed. Most if not all of the participants have agreed this is not productive and there's no point in continuing this. I do hope ADM will at this point exercise restraint and (finally) drop this discussion.
Best,
Zonker
And this is why I haven't responded. As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is closed. Most if not all of the participants have agreed this is not productive and there's no point in continuing this. I do hope ADM will at this point exercise restraint and (finally) drop this discussion.
The post was basically an end note. It was not supposed to be discussed again and continue for long. I just wanted to make a final assessment of previous posts and wanted to make some *final proposals*. For which I mentioned that I was only looking for replies from zonker & bryen (who has the authority). Now that you have replied and have not mentioned any thing about changing the naming convention in protected pages of this wiki, I take it as denial of the proposal (Please correct me if I am wrong).
I still do not agree with the idea that the discussion was unproductive as it helped us confirm the stand point of openSUSE management as well as community.
-- ADM
If nobody answered the discussion ends. It's simple ;)
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 07:27, Abhradip mukherjeeabhradip@freedomnetwork.co.cc wrote:
And this is why I haven't responded. As far as I'm concerned, the discussion is closed. Most if not all of the participants have agreed this is not productive and there's no point in continuing this. I do hope ADM will at this point exercise restraint and (finally) drop this discussion.
The post was basically an end note. It was not supposed to be discussed again and continue for long. I just wanted to make a final assessment of previous posts and wanted to make some *final proposals*. For which I mentioned that I was only looking for replies from zonker & bryen (who has the authority). Now that you have replied and have not mentioned any thing about changing the naming convention in protected pages of this wiki, I take it as denial of the proposal (Please correct me if I am wrong).
I still do not agree with the idea that the discussion was unproductive as it helped us confirm the stand point of openSUSE management as well as community.
-- ADM
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Abhradip mukherjee -
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -
Kevin Gallagher -
Piotrek Juźwiak -
Raul Libório