Dear Marketing Masterminds,
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release. This ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once it is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
A real life meeting, people. A marketing sprint. Now don't start thinking "but I have a job" or "but I live in India" or "but I'm yellow". Think "FOSDEM is 5 and 6 feb, if the meeting is 2-4 feb, I could take a few days off at work and come there". Or "we should do it the weekend before FOSDEM, that would work for me".
Main Goal: fix bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659 and write initial announcement for 11.4; secondairy goals: drink beer, have fun, get to know each other, work on other things and make grand plans.
Once we have an idea of the plan we will ask that elusive openSUSE community manager-dude for a budget so we can pay for (part of?!?) the hotel and travel costs for this sprint.
So anyone who wants to make a contribution to this (that means mostly writing!), say so!
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Cheers, Jos
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Marketing Masterminds,
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release. This ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once it is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
We need to come with the features? Why isn't this reported to us by the sub-projects? Example... KDE reports their features, GNOME reports their features, and so on...
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
A real life meeting, people. A marketing sprint. Now don't start thinking "but I have a job" or "but I live in India" or "but I'm yellow". Think "FOSDEM is 5 and 6 feb, if the meeting is 2-4 feb, I could take a few days off at work and come there". Or "we should do it the weekend before FOSDEM, that would work for me".
Do we have sponsorship for travelling and accommodation?
Main Goal: fix bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659 and write initial announcement for 11.4; secondairy goals: drink beer, have fun, get to know each other, work on other things and make grand plans.
Sounds easy but not that realistic. From my past experience in other project, feature profiles are a pain and demand more time than a rough month and 2 weeks.
Once we have an idea of the plan we will ask that elusive openSUSE community manager-dude for a budget so we can pay for (part of?!?) the hotel and travel costs for this sprint.
So anyone who wants to make a contribution to this (that means mostly writing!), say so!
I'm on GNOME3 interview with Vincent Untz and I'm waiting for 'mrdocs' to answer a small interview as well.
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Cheers, Jos
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 18:48:20 Nelson Marques wrote:
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear Marketing Masterminds,
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release. This ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once it is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
We need to come with the features? Why isn't this reported to us by the sub-projects?
Because this is The Real World (TM)?
Example... KDE reports their features, GNOME reports their features, and so on...
Would be lovely. Go and tell them to do it, they will have fun laughing at you.
Ok, serious. Yes, this is what should happen, and in case of KDE and GNOME it's possible. Kernel, Xorg - the ppl there are less communicative. The best way to find the most important features is to digg through the changelogs. Laborous work but our best shot. A few ppl can do that in a day, if they work hard. That's why I want the meeting.
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
No, it's late but not too late.
A real life meeting, people. A marketing sprint. Now don't start thinking "but I have a job" or "but I live in India" or "but I'm yellow". Think "FOSDEM is 5 and 6 feb, if the meeting is 2-4 feb, I could take a few days off at work and come there". Or "we should do it the weekend before FOSDEM, that would work for me".
Do we have sponsorship for travelling and accommodation?
Most likely yes.
Main Goal: fix bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659 and write initial announcement for 11.4; secondairy goals: drink beer, have fun, get to know each other, work on other things and make grand plans.
Sounds easy but not that realistic. From my past experience in other project, feature profiles are a pain and demand more time than a rough month and 2 weeks.
Well I've written plenty of KDE release announcements (or rather, coordinated the writing) and while I usually indeed prefer to start 3 months in advance, I know it's possible to do it in less time. If you just have the right people in the right place... Hence again, the meeting.
Once we have an idea of the plan we will ask that elusive openSUSE community manager-dude for a budget so we can pay for (part of?!?) the hotel and travel costs for this sprint.
So anyone who wants to make a contribution to this (that means mostly writing!), say so!
I'm on GNOME3 interview with Vincent Untz and I'm waiting for 'mrdocs' to answer a small interview as well.
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Cheers, Jos
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 22:55 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the
beginning of
Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
No, it's late but not too late.
That impresses that we are only working on those days in February for 11.4. That's not the case. These are days that we ge ttogether and dedicate our time day (and night) on tasks to get out of the way. But we should begin working even before then. And that's the topic of the next meeting which will be tomorrow (the one that got postponed yesterday.)
I think that in terms of timing, the hackfest date is just right. We'll have started things by then and February is a good mid-point date to see how we are coming along and sure... afterward, have a nice beer! :-)
So please, eveyrone. If you have a moment, visit the page and enter your information where relevant. The sooner we get some idea of who's going, the sooner we can say for sure whether we're going.
Thanks All Bryen M Yunashko
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday 15 December 2010 18:48:20 Nelson Marques wrote:
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear Marketing Masterminds,
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release. This ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once it is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
We need to come with the features? Why isn't this reported to us by the sub-projects?
Because this is The Real World (TM)?
Example... KDE reports their features, GNOME reports their features, and so on...
Would be lovely. Go and tell them to do it, they will have fun laughing at you.
Good it works that way. I will check it out tomorrow on GNOME Team meeting... I doubt they will laugh on me...
Ok, serious. Yes, this is what should happen, and in case of KDE and GNOME it's possible. Kernel, Xorg - the ppl there are less communicative. The best
So there's a problem... maybe something you should contemplate on strategy.
way to find the most important features is to digg through the changelogs. Laborous work but our best shot. A few ppl can do that in a day, if they work hard. That's why I want the meeting.
Since people will laugh on me and won't cooperate, I don't have time search logs, if they don't care, I for sure won't care either.
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
No, it's late but not too late.
A real life meeting, people. A marketing sprint. Now don't start thinking "but I have a job" or "but I live in India" or "but I'm yellow". Think "FOSDEM is 5 and 6 feb, if the meeting is 2-4 feb, I could take a few days off at work and come there". Or "we should do it the weekend before FOSDEM, that would work for me".
Do we have sponsorship for travelling and accommodation?
Most likely yes.
Main Goal: fix bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659 and write initial announcement for 11.4; secondairy goals: drink beer, have fun, get to know each other, work on other things and make grand plans.
Sounds easy but not that realistic. From my past experience in other project, feature profiles are a pain and demand more time than a rough month and 2 weeks.
Well I've written plenty of KDE release announcements (or rather, coordinated the writing) and while I usually indeed prefer to start 3 months in advance, I know it's possible to do it in less time. If you just have the right people in the right place... Hence again, the meeting.
Our marketing structure seems to be failing. Maybe a good thing to take another peek into Fedora and see how they do it and might be a good idea to duplicate some of their procedures.
Once we have an idea of the plan we will ask that elusive openSUSE community manager-dude for a budget so we can pay for (part of?!?) the hotel and travel costs for this sprint.
So anyone who wants to make a contribution to this (that means mostly writing!), say so!
I'm on GNOME3 interview with Vincent Untz and I'm waiting for 'mrdocs' to answer a small interview as well.
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Cheers, Jos
Our marketing structure seems to be failing. Maybe a good thing to take another peek into Fedora and see how they do it and might be a good idea to duplicate some of their procedures.
'Failing' is a trifle overstated, but the idea of borrowing ideas from other projects is a good one.
I'm sure the folks over at Fedora (like maybe Máirín Duffy ? well she's the only name I know) would be more than happy to chat with us and offer some insights.
It would be nice if we could find some way to make the information we need more readily available, without adding any annoying administration to developer's work process. Maybe someone could write a clever script that can sift out the minor changes and highlight the big ones?
I'm always happy to wrap some pretty words around stuff. What is really difficult sometimes for me personally is knowing whether something is significant and what it means. So if someone can do some fundamental bit of information-gathering, I'll put my hand up to work collaboratively on this, so long as there's others who can correct, fill in gaps and so on.
Perhaps a good first step would be to break the major changes into sections (eg under-the-hood, desktop, tools, toys....) and people 'check out' their favorite topics....
It's easy to spend hours having meetings about structures about processes about standards.... argue ourselves in circles and the work still has to be done!
best,
Helen
On Thursday 16 December 2010 07:16:42 Helen wrote:
Our marketing structure seems to be failing. Maybe a good thing to take another peek into Fedora and see how they do it and might be a good idea to duplicate some of their procedures.
'Failing' is a trifle overstated, but the idea of borrowing ideas from other projects is a good one.
I'm sure the folks over at Fedora (like maybe Máirín Duffy ? well she's the only name I know) would be more than happy to chat with us and offer some insights.
It would be nice if we could find some way to make the information we need more readily available, without adding any annoying administration to developer's work process. Maybe someone could write a clever script that can sift out the minor changes and highlight the big ones?
I'm always happy to wrap some pretty words around stuff. What is really difficult sometimes for me personally is knowing whether something is significant and what it means. So if someone can do some fundamental bit of information-gathering, I'll put my hand up to work collaboratively on this, so long as there's others who can correct, fill in gaps and so on.
Perhaps a good first step would be to break the major changes into sections (eg under-the-hood, desktop, tools, toys....) and people 'check out' their favorite topics....
Good point.
It's easy to spend hours having meetings about structures about processes about standards.... argue ourselves in circles and the work still has to be done!
Exactly, talk talk, procedures, plans etc - and nothing gets done. Let's focus on doing.
We should indeed contact the teams, anyone up for a few mails and a follow-up? Go to http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Teams and pick one or more teams, then try to contact them. I know, not everything is there - at least I have no idea where the Xorg ppl hang out. Any suggestions there are welcome. Psankar has experience with this so feel free to ask him and others who've been around for a long time (eg henne) for contact details. Feel free to use either IRC, mail or both.
Psankar just said the GNOME team is covered by him, Nelson, you up for talking to Bille about KDE 4.6?
Let's use Manu's etherpad to gather all the work: http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
best,
Helen
On 12/16/2010 at 03:19 PM, in message
201012161049.23638.jospoortvliet@gmail.com, Jos Poortvliet jospoortvliet@gmail.com wrote:
We should indeed contact the teams, anyone up for a few mails and a follow-up? Go to http://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Teams and pick one or more teams, then try to contact them. I know, not everything is there - at least I have no idea where the Xorg ppl hang out. Any suggestions there are welcome. Psankar has experience with this so feel free to ask him and others who've been around for a long time (eg henne) for contact details. Feel free to use either IRC, mail or both.
I think it is better if you (or someone from Novell) takes this (for X/gcc etc.) We just have to send a mail to the internal research mailing list and ask in #suse . For KDE, Meego, LXDE etc. and on the desktop side, it is easy to get the people on the openSUSE channels itself, where there are a lot of people who can provide info. For kernel, we can use the opensuse-kernel@opensuse.org mailing list.
Sankar
On 16.12.2010 07:16, Helen wrote:
Our marketing structure seems to be failing. Maybe a good thing to take another peek into Fedora and see how they do it and might be a good idea to duplicate some of their procedures.
'Failing' is a trifle overstated, but the idea of borrowing ideas from other projects is a good one.
I'm sure the folks over at Fedora (like maybe Máirín Duffy ? well she's the only name I know) would be more than happy to chat with us and offer some insights.
It would be nice if we could find some way to make the information we need more readily available, without adding any annoying administration to developer's work process. Maybe someone could write a clever script that can sift out the minor changes and highlight the big ones?
I'm always happy to wrap some pretty words around stuff. What is really difficult sometimes for me personally is knowing whether something is significant and what it means. So if someone can do some fundamental bit of information-gathering, I'll put my hand up to work collaboratively on this, so long as there's others who can correct, fill in gaps and so on.
Perhaps a good first step would be to break the major changes into sections (eg under-the-hood, desktop, tools, toys....) and people 'check out' their favorite topics....
It's easy to spend hours having meetings about structures about processes about standards.... argue ourselves in circles and the work still has to be done!
In theory(!) we are tracking the features for all openSUSE releases in openFATE. For 11.4 this query shows the already implemented features: https://features.opensuse.org/query/run?search_string=&tag=&search_p...
But not all teams are using it yet, because it just got usable some weeks ago with our last update. We also want to establish a process there including screening of incoming features, tagging with a keyword, so the features get directed to the right teams etc. http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Openfate_process
On monday we will do an openFATE day, where involved people are on #opensuse-project the whole day and we can discuss this and screen te current feature database.
Greetings
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Helen postmodernhousewife@gmail.com wrote:
Our marketing structure seems to be failing. Maybe a good thing to take another peek into Fedora and see how they do it and might be a good idea to duplicate some of their procedures.
'Failing' is a trifle overstated, but the idea of borrowing ideas from other projects is a good one.
I'm sure the folks over at Fedora (like maybe Máirín Duffy ? well she's the only name I know) would be more than happy to chat with us and offer some insights.
No need. That one is being worked on.
It would be nice if we could find some way to make the information we need more readily available, without adding any annoying administration to developer's work process. Maybe someone could write a clever script that can sift out the minor changes and highlight the big ones?
I'm always happy to wrap some pretty words around stuff. What is really difficult sometimes for me personally is knowing whether something is significant and what it means. So if someone can do some fundamental bit of information-gathering, I'll put my hand up to work collaboratively on this, so long as there's others who can correct, fill in gaps and so on.
Perhaps a good first step would be to break the major changes into sections (eg under-the-hood, desktop, tools, toys....) and people 'check out' their favorite topics....
It's easy to spend hours having meetings about structures about processes about standards.... argue ourselves in circles and the work still has to be done!
best,
Helen
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release.
This
ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once
it
is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
We need to come with the features? Why isn't this reported to us by the sub-projects? Example... KDE reports their features, GNOME reports their features, and so on...
It is one of the agenda items in today's meeting to discuss about GNOME Features from openFATE. Also, we (try to) maintain a list at: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GNOME_features for next release.
During the 11.3 release, For the release notes, we gathered this "list of new things" from the individual team(s) via IRC itself. IIRC, I gave it for GNOME, Bille for KDE, and then we just got hold of some kernel people over irc. So, we can repeat the same this time. I believe we may not need a face-to-face meeting just for this. However, any face-to-face interaction will do more good than harm :-) There are a lot of problems with travel like Visa, cost, accomodation etc. However, I am not against face-to-face meetings, I believe it is better to spend that money for something else like oSConference, instead of release-marketing-planning. (my 2 cents etc. no strong opinions on this)
I agreee with Jos that a PULL model is what will work best for Kernel, gcc etc. for getting the list of new features instead of expecting them to come and give us the features. It is just because of the nature/style of the work.
I volunteer to get the new features list (for gnome atleast), screenshots, review of announce mail, spreading of the release link to reddit, digg, etc. , just like last time. I will work with everyone who have volunteered in the wiki. I think we as a team did an excellent job last time for the 11.3 release compared with the previous releases. It looks we will be making a even better release for 11.4 :)
[snip]
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Looks Good.
Sankar http://psankar.blogspot.com
I will help with the GNOME wiki and stuff too
On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 00:43 -0700, Sankar P wrote:
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
Take this bug for example:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release.
This
ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once
it
is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
We need to come with the features? Why isn't this reported to us by the sub-projects? Example... KDE reports their features, GNOME reports their features, and so on...
It is one of the agenda items in today's meeting to discuss about GNOME Features from openFATE. Also, we (try to) maintain a list at: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:GNOME_features for next release.
During the 11.3 release, For the release notes, we gathered this "list of new things" from the individual team(s) via IRC itself. IIRC, I gave it for GNOME, Bille for KDE, and then we just got hold of some kernel people over irc. So, we can repeat the same this time. I believe we may not need a face-to-face meeting just for this. However, any face-to-face interaction will do more good than harm :-) There are a lot of problems with travel like Visa, cost, accomodation etc. However, I am not against face-to-face meetings, I believe it is better to spend that money for something else like oSConference, instead of release-marketing-planning. (my 2 cents etc. no strong opinions on this)
I agreee with Jos that a PULL model is what will work best for Kernel, gcc etc. for getting the list of new features instead of expecting them to come and give us the features. It is just because of the nature/style of the work.
I volunteer to get the new features list (for gnome atleast), screenshots, review of announce mail, spreading of the release link to reddit, digg, etc. , just like last time. I will work with everyone who have volunteered in the wiki. I think we as a team did an excellent job last time for the 11.3 release compared with the previous releases. It looks we will be making a even better release for 11.4 :)
[snip]
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
That means we have 1 month (the shorter of the year, February) and barelly 1 week and half. Ain't this too late, considering the first part of your email where we still have to dig the features ?
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Looks Good.
Sankar http://psankar.blogspot.com
On Thursday 16 December 2010 08:43:28 Sankar P wrote:
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
<snip>
During the 11.3 release, For the release notes, we gathered this "list of new things" from the individual team(s) via IRC itself. IIRC, I gave it for GNOME, Bille for KDE, and then we just got hold of some kernel people over irc. So, we can repeat the same this time. I believe we may not need a face-to-face meeting just for this. However, any face-to-face interaction will do more good than harm :-)
Yup. Surely we should start asap, try to get features together etc. But writing a release announcement and planning a release is a huge amount of work. A 3-day sprint (for example) can make a huge difference. I know the marketing meetings of the last 2 years 3 months prior to KDE releases made a huge impact on the quality of the announcement [1].
[1] compare http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.4/ and http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.5/ - the first has a feature guide [2], the second doesn't. We just couldn't do two feature guides per year, so much work as it is... [2] http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.4/guide.php
There are a lot of problems with travel like Visa, cost, accomodation etc. However, I am not against face-to-face meetings, I believe it is better to spend that money for something else like oSConference, instead of release-marketing-planning. (my 2 cents etc. no strong opinions on this)
Yes, there are costs. But the goal is not that much release-marketing-planning but release-marketing-DOING ;-) Besides, regular team meetings are a very good thing - we don't do that enough in openSUSE. Many of the marketing people couldn't make it to the openSUSE conference, we might be able to do better here.
Cheers, Jos
On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 18:40 +0100, Jos Poortvliet wrote:
Dear Marketing Masterminds,
In a few months we have a release. That means there is work to do.
I am preparing a short feature list at http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
Take this bug for example: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659
Yes, we need to come up with a list of top features for the 11.4 release. This ain't an easy task, taking up a serious amount of time and discussion. Once it is done, a draft announcement can be made as well as other things.
To do this, Bryen and me propose to have a meeting in the beginning of Februari (either shortly before, during or just after FOSDEM).
A real life meeting, people. A marketing sprint. Now don't start thinking "but I have a job" or "but I live in India" or "but I'm yellow". Think "FOSDEM is 5 and 6 feb, if the meeting is 2-4 feb, I could take a few days off at work and come there". Or "we should do it the weekend before FOSDEM, that would work for me".
Main Goal: fix bug https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=659659 and write initial announcement for 11.4; secondairy goals: drink beer, have fun, get to know each other, work on other things and make grand plans.
Once we have an idea of the plan we will ask that elusive openSUSE community manager-dude for a budget so we can pay for (part of?!?) the hotel and travel costs for this sprint.
So anyone who wants to make a contribution to this (that means mostly writing!), say so!
Bryen has set up a wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:11.4_Marketing_Hackfest
Cheers, Jos
I am preparing a short feature list at http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
Good. We have to write also something about the kernel patchs, (what features are going to be more stable, what features are completely new etc.).
Bye hawake
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:03 PM, G G hawake@gmail.com wrote:
I am preparing a short feature list at http://manugupt1.ietherpad.com/4
Good. We have to write also something about the kernel patchs, (what features are going to be more stable, what features are completely new etc.).
Suggestion: Interview with Marcus Meissner ?
Bye hawake
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