[opensuse-marketing] missing links on www.o.o
Hi IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better. I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ... The challenge is not to break the clear design. My proposal: make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum. Other ideas, or is everbody happy with the page as we have it today? -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Whooops! Accidentally replied just to Martin instead of the list. Sorry Martin. ----------------------------- On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 14:42 +0200, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
Hi
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum.
Other ideas, or is everbody happy with the page as we have it today?
-- with kind regards,
Martin Lasarsch, Core Services
I've been experimenting on my own for the last few days with the home page of the wiki as I've been doing some cleanup on the GNOME pages, plus I added A11y pages. I wanted to see just how prominent and easy it was to find things. My problems in the past, I've heard too many people complain they can't find anything on the wiki. And for me, since I started using it in October (just after 10.3 release), it has been a "stumble-and-find" experience more than anything. People say "Well, that's what the search box is for." Not if you don't know what you're looking for or want to browse for. The concerns I have is in keeping with the "Once you're here, STAY here" strategy I firmly believe in. Doing a "Find" on the home page, there is no GNOME, and the only KDE hit was for a news article. People are going to want to find information as soon as they visit the wiki (that's the reason they came here in the first place.) The same goes for the new Accessibility pages. People who are looking for accessibility info are likely to need help ASAP because they are unable to use their computers. :-) I'm concerned about how we retain newcomers after they visit our wiki. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Bryen wrote:
Whooops! Accidentally replied just to Martin instead of the list. Sorry Martin.
Hi---this is because the setup for this list in not so good! Can somebody fix this....Reply-to should be specified as opensuse-marketing@opensuse.org and NOT the actual sender. :( -- ============================================================ Kay Schenk "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want." -- Author unknown -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 08:24 -0700, Kay Schenk wrote:
Bryen wrote:
Whooops! Accidentally replied just to Martin instead of the list. Sorry Martin.
Hi---this is because the setup for this list in not so good! Can somebody fix this....Reply-to should be specified as opensuse-marketing@opensuse.org and NOT the actual sender. :(
-- ============================================================ Kay Schenk
You're stirring up the hornet's nest. :-) Actually, you shouldn't use reply-to-all option, but rather reply-to-sender option. I don't know how it is done in Thunderbird, but I know there is a way. In Evolution, it is Ctrl+L. I say hornet's nest, because that has been oft-debated on the opensuse forums and you're not going to get anywhere, as others will vehemently defend the strategy the way it is now. Not worth bringing it up again. Although, I suspect, as new users sign up for forums over the next few weeks, we'll see the usual uptick of this debate again. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 07:58 -0500, Bryen wrote:
Doing a "Find" on the home page, there is no GNOME, and the only KDE hit was for a news article. People are going to want to find information as soon as they visit the wiki (that's the reason they came here in the first place.)
The same goes for the new Accessibility pages. People who are looking for accessibility info are likely to need help ASAP because they are unable to use their computers. :-)
I'm concerned about how we retain newcomers after they visit our wiki.
Bryen
Another issue with the search that I have is that it only searches the wiki. It would be nice if we had a built-in search that searched everything: News, Spotlight, Lizards, Forums, Download, software search, etc. Back to Martin's idea, I like the idea of creating a fourth box on the front page. There should also be some little 11.0 ad, at least for launch day if someone could come up with one on time (if there's interest I'll make one real quick). -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> Yo.media: 225-590-5961 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 17.06.2008, at 23:40, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Tue, 2008-06-17 at 07:58 -0500, Bryen wrote:
Doing a "Find" on the home page, there is no GNOME, and the only KDE hit was for a news article. People are going to want to find information as soon as they visit the wiki (that's the reason they came here in the first place.)
The same goes for the new Accessibility pages. People who are looking for accessibility info are likely to need help ASAP because they are unable to use their computers. :-)
I'm concerned about how we retain newcomers after they visit our wiki.
Bryen
Another issue with the search that I have is that it only searches the wiki. It would be nice if we had a built-in search that searched everything: News, Spotlight, Lizards, Forums, Download, software search, etc.
The result would be a total data-chaos and the search would be IMHO more useless then the wiki search is now. An optimised wiki search would be more useful!
Back to Martin's idea, I like the idea of creating a fourth box on the front page. There should also be some little 11.0 ad, at least for launch day if someone could come up with one on time (if there's interest I'll make one real quick).
The page should stay with the KISS rule. The 11.0 add idea is interessting, but it looks to unsmooth to me ... I have to meditate about this. Best, Robert
-- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy Public Mail <kevin.dupuy@opensuse.org> Yo.media: 225-590-5961
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
--- Robert Lihm, Webdesigner - Build Service Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0 - rlihm@suse.de ____________________________________________________________ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ____________________________________________________________ SUSE - a Novell business -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design. Fully agreed.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum. IMO thist already breaks the clear design But I'm not a usability or design guy ;-)
Other ideas, or is everbody happy with the page as we have it today? As downlaod, OBS and wiki is kind of our core what about leaving them as
Hi, On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote: prominent as they are but offering at one place same page all the other stuff? eg. drop down menue with forums, news, lizards or add the topics to a line below, similar to the grey "the openSUSE project is.." So these important offerings are listed for everyone. M
-- with kind regards,
Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Moin. Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design. Fully agreed.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum.
IMO thist already breaks the clear design But I'm not a usability or design guy ;-)
How about keeping the three main icons (downloads, wiki, build service) as they are and just adding a narrow icon for news, lizards and forum below each of them. ASCII-Art draft: __ __ __ | | | | | | |dl| |wi| |bs| |__| |__| |__| __ __ __ |__| |__| |__| This may just be a quick fix, because we probably will want to put further attractive sites/services to the start page. But I think this proposal may be implemented really quick. Kind regards, Marko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 17 June 2008 18:18:53 Marko Jung wrote:
Moin.
Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design.
Fully agreed.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum.
IMO thist already breaks the clear design But I'm not a usability or design guy ;-)
How about keeping the three main icons (downloads, wiki, build service) as they are and just adding a narrow icon for news, lizards and forum below each of them.
hmm ... actually that will downsize the importance of news/lizards/forum, but way better compared to how this is now. IMHO they should all have the same size. -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008 18:18:53 Marko Jung wrote:
Moin.
Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design.
Fully agreed.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum.
IMO thist already breaks the clear design But I'm not a usability or design guy ;-)
How about keeping the three main icons (downloads, wiki, build service) as they are and just adding a narrow icon for news, lizards and forum below each of them.
hmm ... actually that will downsize the importance of news/lizards/forum, but way better compared to how this is now.
IMHO they should all have the same size. No, they shouldn't. Then we're on the straight way to have soon 12 or more icons on the desktop and hide us in unclarity. news, forums, lizards is just the beginning What about shop, user directory? And I'm sure over time more will come. No, we need to prioritize! Core is distro, wiki and OBS. Yes, the other stuff should be offered easy to catch for everybody.
M
-- with kind regards,
Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On 17.06.2008, at 23:34, Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008 18:18:53 Marko Jung wrote:
Moin.
Michael Loeffler wrote:
On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
The challenge is not to break the clear design.
Fully agreed.
My proposal:
make the 3 sections/icons we have now a little bit smaller in the height and make a second row to add news/lizards/forum.
IMO thist already breaks the clear design But I'm not a usability or design guy ;-)
How about keeping the three main icons (downloads, wiki, build service) as they are and just adding a narrow icon for news, lizards and forum below each of them.
hmm ... actually that will downsize the importance of news/lizards/ forum, but way better compared to how this is now.
IMHO they should all have the same size. No, they shouldn't. Then we're on the straight way to have soon 12 or more icons on the desktop and hide us in unclarity. news, forums, lizards is just the beginning What about shop, user directory? And I'm sure over time more will come. No, we need to prioritize! Core is distro, wiki and OBS. Yes, the other stuff should be offered easy to catch for everybody.
Yep! Absolutely agree with Michl. R
M
-- with kind regards,
Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
--- Robert Lihm, Webdesigner - Build Service Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0 - rlihm@suse.de ____________________________________________________________ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ____________________________________________________________ SUSE - a Novell business -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Michael Loeffler wrote: | On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote: [...] |> IMHO they should all have the same size. |> | No, they shouldn't. Then we're on the straight way to have soon 12 or more | icons on the desktop and hide us in unclarity. | news, forums, lizards is just the beginning | What about shop, user directory? And I'm sure over time more will come. | No, we need to prioritize! Core is distro, wiki and OBS. Yes, the other stuff | should be offered easy to catch for everybody. Hmm.. I fail to see the OBS as "core". It certainly is wrt services that are offered to developers/packagers alike, but not to end-users. I mean, that link goes to the restricted developer web interface of the OBS, not to the OBS search page, or anything else that would be relevant to mere mortals. I'd definitely prefer to see News as "core", and a smaller pic for OBS. I wouldn't put the Forums there, because then.. what's with the mailing-lists and IRC ? Arguably, the same argumentation as the one I'm using above could be applied here too. If we do consider mailing-lists and IRC to be much less of a target to less openSUSE-experienced people, then yeah, a "big" icon for Forums would be OK. Maybe a "big" icon for "Talk about it" that would link to an KISS page about the most prominent communication channels ? (but that would be a bigger change, -1 IMO) [ripping Marko's] ASCII-Art draft: ~ __ __ __ ~ | | | | | | ~ |dl| |wi| |nw|<-news.o.o ~ |__| |__| |__| ~ __ __ __ ~ |__| |__| |__| ~ obs forum lizards/blogs (*) (*) although lizards.o.o only hosts 5-10% of openSUSE related blogs, planetsuse has a _lot_ more content cheers - -- ~ -o) Pascal Bleser <pascal.bleser@opensuse.org> ~ /\\ http://opensuse.org -- I took the green pill ~ _\_v FOSDEM::23+24 Feb 2008, Brussels, http://fosdem.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIWEbbr3NMWliFcXcRAjd5AJ9PMmwujA4GN2PcLCx0+8QX9cEXSACcDz+M i/e9Qm4+PYy6Fb4oMq/+L4E= =C63z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Pascal Bleser wrote:
I wouldn't put the Forums there, because then.. what's with the mailing-lists and IRC ? Arguably, the same argumentation as the one I'm using above could be applied here too. If we do consider mailing-lists and IRC to be much less of a target to less openSUSE-experienced people, then yeah, a "big" icon for Forums would be OK.
Yeah... the mailing lists and IRC pages are sort of sporadic visit pages -- people visit once or twice to get the info they need, and then don't go back very often. (At least I'm pretty sure that's the typical use case) whereas people would visit the forums repeatedly...
(*) although lizards.o.o only hosts 5-10% of openSUSE related blogs, planetsuse has a _lot_ more content
Indeed -- I'd vote for planet suse over lizards here. Best , Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager http://zonker.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 18 June 2008 07:05:11 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
Pascal Bleser wrote:
I wouldn't put the Forums there, because then.. what's with the mailing-lists and IRC ? Arguably, the same argumentation as the one I'm using above could be applied here too. If we do consider mailing-lists and IRC to be much less of a target to less openSUSE-experienced people, then yeah, a "big" icon for Forums would be OK.
Yeah... the mailing lists and IRC pages are sort of sporadic visit pages -- people visit once or twice to get the info they need, and then don't go back very often. (At least I'm pretty sure that's the typical use case) whereas people would visit the forums repeatedly...
(*) although lizards.o.o only hosts 5-10% of openSUSE related blogs, planetsuse has a _lot_ more content
Indeed -- I'd vote for planet suse over lizards here.
this would also drop new.o.o, because it's aggregated on planet. I would like to see planet on it, but i though that we want only "official" links on the start page. -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 18 June 2008 01:20:59 Pascal Bleser wrote:
Michael Loeffler wrote: | On Tuesday 17 June 2008, Martin Lasarsch wrote:
[...]
|> IMHO they should all have the same size. | | No, they shouldn't. Then we're on the straight way to have soon 12 or
more
| icons on the desktop and hide us in unclarity. | news, forums, lizards is just the beginning | What about shop, user directory? And I'm sure over time more will come. | No, we need to prioritize! Core is distro, wiki and OBS. Yes, the
other stuff
| should be offered easy to catch for everybody.
Hmm.. I fail to see the OBS as "core". It certainly is wrt services that are offered to developers/packagers alike, but not to end-users.
+1 -- with kind regards, Martin Lasarsch, Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5 90409 Nürnberg GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) martin.lasarsch@suse.de - http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Michael Loeffler wrote:
IMHO the startpage is missing to much options the user have. We offer beside download/wiki/obs a lot of other services which should be promoted better.
I miss news, lizards and the forum. Maybe there are other pages missing ...
This is a really excellent point. Although, maybe we should point to Planet rather than lizards? On one hand, we'd get deeper coverage w/Planet SUSE, but some "unofficial" content.
As downlaod, OBS and wiki is kind of our core what about leaving them as prominent as they are but offering at one place same page all the other stuff? eg. drop down menue with forums, news, lizards or add the topics to a line below, similar to the grey "the openSUSE project is.." So these important offerings are listed for everyone.
I guess we need to think about who we're trying to reach with the front page of the Web site. Of the top 3 items, is build service an appropriate destination for all new visitors? Now that they're available, wouldn't forums be a more suitable destination? Since we're on this topic, I think this page needs some room -- maybe nothing more obtrusive than the "project is" description -- for some news. Whether that's the 11.0 release or bug day or some other announcement. I really like the uncluttered design, but looking around at other sites, I think we may be missing some opportunities to provide users (and potential users...) with information and promote the project. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager http://zonker.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Bryen -
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -
Kay Schenk -
Kevin Dupuy -
Marko Jung -
Martin Lasarsch -
Michael Loeffler -
Pascal Bleser -
Robert Lihm