As I've noted before, I was somewhat dismayed by the decision to push 11.2 out to November and to shift to an 8 month release cycle. And now that I've had a chance to play with 11.2 milestone 1 and seen how solid it seems to be, I'm more than ever convinced that a "feature freeze" at what's on Milestone 1 and a push to a release as soon as possible is a good idea. I haven't looked at the bug list in any detail yet, but the only show-stopper I saw was the dependency issue with XFCE on the install. When does the next 11.2 milestone come out? How much functionality is missing at the moment? 2009/4/28 Piotrek Juźwiak :

On 04/28/2009 07:16 PM, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 11:33:38 am Piotrek Juźwiak wrote:

...

Wouldn't it be a good idea to keep openSUSE on the headlines by creating respins, official updated Live CD's (additionally KDE 4.2 CD's, so trendy nowadays). Otherwise short after a release it's quiet until we get a new milestone what took 4 months :)

Best Regards

Bender

It would be good for openSUSE and users, to have released version respin every 4 months (half release time) with all updates to that moment.

We'll get headlines twice as often, users streamlined installation, both will use lesser bandwidth for download of updates, so leftovers can be used for more important things, like watching YouTube tutorials.

Well honestly, if someone let's say wants to try out openSUSE while having a hardware that was causing problems at the beginning of the release version and which was fixed later then it's not a bad idea at all or is it?? Novell/openSUSE has such great tools like kiwi, OBS so why couldn't we do such things? Even if there would be any problems with the new respins then surely there would be no more than at the beginning of 11.1. Does openSUSE has any policy as to what/when to update/reissue??

I'm pretty serious about that. A news about Milestones won't really interest most people but the geeks that want to live on the bleeding edge. So we should really consider changing the policy, this could be discussed on the openSUSE Community Week right??

Best Regards

Bender -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- M. Edward (Ed) Borasky http://www.linkedin.com/in/edborasky I've never met a happy clam. In fact, most of them were pretty steamed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 12:31:32 pm Piotrek Juźwiak wrote: ...

Well honestly, if someone let's say wants to try out openSUSE while having a hardware that was causing problems at the beginning of the release version and which was fixed later then it's not a bad idea at all or is it?? Novell/openSUSE has such great tools like kiwi, OBS so why couldn't we do such things? Even if there would be any problems with the new respins then surely there would be no more than at the beginning of 11.1. Does openSUSE has any policy as to what/when to update/reissue??

I'm pretty serious about that. A news about Milestones won't really interest most people but the geeks that want to live on the bleeding edge. So we should really consider changing the policy, this could be discussed on the openSUSE Community Week right??

Right. It can be added under Distribution Release Policy, but I have no time to take ownership of topic. I took already enough to be busy until next year. http://en.opensuse.org/Community_Week Since respin is cheaper then it once was, the policy of 1 media - iso per release cycle and category (DVD,Live CDs) should be reconsidered. It is cheap generator of attention with addon benefits of improved perception about distribution quality, lower pressure on support after initial 4 months, mail lists, forums and bugzilla. The geeks get their with main release, the rest after 4 months. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On 04/28/2009 07:37 PM, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

Hi,

the idea is nice in principle, but it all comes to who can do that.

If this means reducing resources for the next main release, I don't think it is an advantage, just to have more attention from the press.

On the other hand, if this is done by volunteers (how can it be official, if so?), that's OK. But it has to be sustainable on the long run.

Best, A.

Il giorno mar, 28/04/2009 alle 18.33 +0200, Piotrek Juźwiak ha scritto:

...

Wouldn't it be a good idea to keep openSUSE on the headlines by creating respins, official updated Live CD's (additionally KDE 4.2 CD's, so trendy nowadays). Otherwise short after a release it's quiet until we get a new milestone what took 4 months :)

Best Regards

Bender

We could discuss what packages should be included, how should we build this, set some quality standards and checks, and in a week or two we have a "fresh" Live CDs. If openSUSE is a community project then community should decide whether to do it or not or to call it official?? Best Regards Bender -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:01:09 pm Martin Schlander wrote:

Generally we should focus all effort on putting out quality official releases every 8 months imo.

Whatever we do upstream development doesn't stop and there will be always updates. Maybe not in range of GB, but it is always advantage to have lesser updates once you install openSUSE, it gives better impression on users, plus the cheapest attention gatherer that can be. -- Regards, Rajko http://news.opensuse.org/category/people-of-opensuse/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:32 +0200, Piotrek Juźwiak wrote:

On 04/28/2009 08:11 PM, Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Tuesday 28 April 2009 01:01:09 pm Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Generally we should focus all effort on putting out quality official releases every 8 months imo.

Whatever we do upstream development doesn't stop and there will be always updates. Maybe not in range of GB, but it is always advantage to have lesser updates once you install openSUSE, it gives better impression on users, plus the cheapest attention gatherer that can be.

While i agree with that i think there should always be a respin with fixes etc. It's so easy to make then why not consider it and dismiss it already?? Of course there is a KDE 4 Reloaded and it is great (checked, tested) and i think it should be official. Anyway, respin with updates etc. should at least be considered and since we have half a year till 11.2 then we need to do something in that time right?? Efforts for 11.2, i agree but i don't think every user of 11.1 will jump onto 11.2 Milestone wagon to make it best distro ever no matter how stable it is.

Hi I'm new to the list, but interested in becoming more involved in the marketing of openSUSE. It isn't clear to me why we need to respin and re-release ISOs in order to make announcements about about KDE or GNOME updates. Can't we just publicize when we have updated GNOME or KDE in a stable repo? For example, the recent update of GNOME 2.26 in the build service GNOME repositories. Cheers. -Gary -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Il giorno mar, 28/04/2009 alle 16.52 -0500, Bryen ha scritto:

On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 12:37 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

Hi,

the idea is nice in principle, but it all comes to who can do that.

If this means reducing resources for the next main release, I don't think it is an advantage, just to have more attention from the press.

On the other hand, if this is done by volunteers (how can it be official, if so?), that's OK. But it has to be sustainable on the long run.

Best, A.

First of all, whether a person who is part of the community and works on an aspect of the openSUSE project while being paid or not paid does not have any correlation to whether the action is considered "official." The assumption that an unpaid community member is less than a paid person is a gross misperception and misrepresentation of what the Project and Community are all about.

This was not implied in my e-mail. But people employed at Novell constantly has resource problems in term of time and manpower, according to what they say.

As for "official", that is also something of a perception by the world at large. What does "official" mean to people? To them, it means value, reliability, support, and reputation. Value because of what the product provides, reliability because we know it works and support because we know the community behind it can sustain it. Reputation because people know others who have used the product and are satisfied with it.

Official for me means that I get regular updates from the main installation repository. The rest is community = "use at your own risk".

If the community believes strongly in providing respins as an additional product of the Project, there is nothing that prevents them from doing that. If you want the product to be well embraced by the public as well as by the Project itself, then you need to ensure that the infrastructure (note items mentioned above) are in place to sustain it.

Agreed.

We can easily grab headlines each week by saying we're doing this and that. And the week after that, what we said last week is forgotten as people move on to the next juicy news tidbit. We shouldn't ever put our weight behind any product just for the sake of grabbing headlines. Please don't make headlines the driving factor behind your project.

What we should be doing is focusing on mindshare. Mindshare is when people say "I want Linux", the first thing that pops up in their head is openSUSE because they've heard that name over and over even if they don't know Linux. That's what the U guys have done and every time I broach the subject of Linux to a non-Linux/non-technical person, it seems the first word out of their mouth is "Ubuntu."

So guys, you want to grab headlines? Focus on the mindshare aspect. That's where you'll win in the long run. Otherwise, let's not go for cheap stuff just to make a splash. Eventually, that splash returns to a calm body of water, and then what?

Yes. I fully agree on this. Best, A. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org